Welcome to Koi Forum. Is this your first visit? Register
TuffX Glass
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30
  1. #1

    Question Refurb or start over?

    I have uncovered a koi pond in my garden and after moving a skip full of rubble out of it ( about 1/3 left). I am now left with the dilemma of is It better to try and revive the pond in its original form or rebuild from scratch?

    It is a reinforced concrete pond about 5x2m, it is about 0.7m deep but I am unsure of the integrity of the bottom drains. The shape on the bottom needs some work as it seems a little flat to me to drain effectively. The question is do I raise it to (or below!) the ground, or try and salvage what I have? The one bottom drain I have uncovered is in a very sorry state, the other is still under a few tons of rubble!

    I would like the pond to be 2m deep, when finished which will mean it has a lot of the pond abouve ground, 1.3m in fact, chest height on me and I'm nearly 2m tall.
    I admit the details are a little vague, but I'm brand new to this!
    heres some pics to help explain my rambling.



    Thanks,


    Paul


    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    To be honest, the pipework that is leading to the bottom drain will need to be replaced. So you will need to channel that out to start with. Is the green stuff just render or is that fibre glass ?

    The builder has used rebar in it so that's a good thing, You can keep the base once you have dug and replaced the 4" pressure pipe. Depending on what pond you go for I would suggest building up the side walls and have a raised pond, it's the most common these days due to pets, children and predators. I would personally drill into the existing wall at regular intervals and insert some rebar in there before building on top of it. It will give it a lot more structural integrity.


    My guess is that there is another bottom drain under the last section of rubble.

  3. Thanks PbLead, freddyboy, dave_vr6 Thanked / Liked this Post
  4. #3
    I would be tempted to build through rather than refurb, esp if you want 2 m depth - 1.2m above ground is a lot, you will get better insulation underground than above - plus this way you can be 100% sure of integrity.

  5. Thanks PbLead, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  6. #4
    Pinnacle,

    That is the kind of answer I was expecting to be honest. I was intending to replace the bottom drains as I cannot confirm their integrity, or the leak-proof-ness with 6000l of water sat on top of them!

    The green stuff is just render and I'm am thinking of getting it insulated and fibreglassed once I've sorted the drains out. And yes , I believe there is another drain under that rubble as there are two 4" outlets cut off at grade behind the pond.

    The next step step is getting the rest of the rubble out of the way and sorting the drains, working from the bottom up I imagine.
    Last edited by PbLead; 19-06-2018 at 11:09 AM.

  7. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  8. #5
    Treatstone,

    I had thought of this of a better way of going deeper. But would I be above to use the existing walls or am I going to have to remove all the existing concrete and start again? I would be able to ensure integrity of the whole project then, especially as I don't know why it was really filled in.
    Last edited by PbLead; 19-06-2018 at 11:09 AM.

  9. #6
    Did I say 6000l? I meant more that 20000l

  10. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Derby
    Posts
    2,551
    Thanks / Likes
    4705
    I think I would be inclined to start again from scratch and dig it out deeper, dig it out to about 1.2 meters and come out of the ground a further 0.7 and you will have a really nice pond that you know is going to last, you can dig out a little deeper and use the hardcore as the sub-base if its well compacted, you will need to replace the bottom drains so I would be very sceptical about joining concrete without first cutting it and then drilling the sides to insert rebar pegs to give a good joint, by the time you have done all that it would be quicker to rebuild
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

  11. Thanks PbLead, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  12. #8
    RoyLittleO

    This will also allow me to build a liner pond rather than concrete, which could have benefits as well as drawbacks I am no doubt going to have to research deeper.

  13. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Derby
    Posts
    2,551
    Thanks / Likes
    4705
    Quote Originally Posted by PbLead View Post
    no doubt going to have to research deeper.
    And dig deeper
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

  14. Thanks PbLead, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  15. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyLittle0 View Post
    And dig deeper
    Oh, for sure.
    no to see if I can get a mini digger through a 700mm gap!

  16. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  17. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Derby
    Posts
    2,551
    Thanks / Likes
    4705
    That's tight, I think a micro digger is 700mm, I had the same problem so I ended up digging it by hand

    EDIT:
    580mm tracks (690mm at widest point)
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

  18. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  19. #12
    RoyLittleO
    I’ve just read through your pond build post, it sounds like you have planned to the last detail. I’m impressed, sorry about your fish, such a loss.
    Can I ask what made you chose concrete over a box welded liner? I’m tempted myself it as I’m looking at digging a big hole now!

  20. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  21. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Nr Farnham, Surrey
    Posts
    2,069
    Thanks / Likes
    831
    Although in a perfect world with large budget you would be better off starting from scratch I personally think you could work with what you have. 2m depth really isn't necessary - if you add say 800mm to your 700mm you would have a 1.5m deep pond which is absolutely fine - even if you take out 100mm for insulation and a new screed base 1.4m is perfectly workable.

    If you go for replacement you will have a hefty bill & effort before you even start, to remove all that reinforced concrete.

    The most critical bit is sorting out that bottom drain but the bit you can't see (the underground pipework) is probably absolutely fine, and the join to the new bottom drain can be fully tested before you move on.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

  22. Thanks Scamp, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  23. #14
    Pip895

    although starting from scratch is tempting they're is a world of pain and wallet emptying to go through before I would even get close to getting fish into it.
    The nest step is to get the rest of the rubble out then fix the bottom drains. At least more of my (not very well defined) budget will get used of digger hire, skips and rubble removal!

    I've had a quote for a liner, would it be worth getting a custom made box welded liner to slip in the pond to ensure integrity as I can't be sure as to why it was filled in the first place.

  24. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion Ajm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Durham
    Posts
    11,220
    Thanks / Likes
    21135
    Go though the house like one lad on here did can't remember who but sure he 'll be along mite have been jason

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    Freddyboy the legend

    "we are water keepers first"

    Johnathan

  25. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  26. #16
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    If the budget isnt huge, I would refurb what you have but build upwards to get a reasonable depth, such as 5 feet.
    You could spend what youve saved on digger hire and waste removal on having it fibreglassed, which is a superior option and longer lasting than a liner.

    You do have lots of options though

  27. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  28. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    Go though the house like one lad on here did can't remember who but sure he 'll be along mite have been jason

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    I can’t get a digger through the house, guy I can get a wheel barrow down the side, looks like manual labour is in vogue this year!

  29. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  30. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    If the budget isnt huge, I would refurb what you have but build upwards to get a reasonable depth, such as 5 feet.
    You could spend what youve saved on digger hire and waste removal on having it fibreglassed, which is a superior option and longer lasting than a liner.


    You do have lots of options though
    I agree, fix what I’ve got. But am tempted by a custom dived liner, due to being wary of the concrete construction. I do like the idea of saving money for better equipment later on. And nice fish!

  31. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  32. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion RoyLittle0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Derby
    Posts
    2,551
    Thanks / Likes
    4705
    Quote Originally Posted by PbLead View Post
    RoyLittleO
    I’ve just read through your pond build post, it sounds like you have planned to the last detail. I’m impressed, sorry about your fish, such a loss.
    Can I ask what made you chose concrete over a box welded liner? I’m tempted myself it as I’m looking at digging a big hole now!
    To be honest I didn't really consider a box liner, I like the look of a fibreglassed pond and I have a main sewer running through my garden which is 2" from my pond wall, the water supply company could decide to dig this up at any time as its quite old, so the full height wall gives me some safety from people digging holes in my garden next to the pond and i have a very high water table as well as a 40' tree 4 meters from the pond, also being above ground I needed to build up in blocks anyway, so for the extra cost I have done what I believe to be a better yet more expensive option that should outlast me, as I get older I realise this is most likely the last pond I will build so the extra expense will pay off in time and I can sit back and stress over water quality and not the pond leaking
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2100 mm x 710 mm Infinity Window 32mm thick glass
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps
    Heated from house boiler through a heat exchanger
    Idealseal MS290

    My Pond Build

  33. Thanks freddyboy, milaz Thanked / Liked this Post
  34. #20
    I am thinking of fixing the bottom drains tidying the base, building some walls and dipping a liner in if it’s possible. Need to research and look further into my options. I’m not ruling out GRP yet, but keeping an open mind.

  35. Thanks pip895, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
 

 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:50 PM. Online Koi Mag Forum
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.

vBulletin Improved By vBFoster® (Lite Version), © UltimateScheme, Ltd.