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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    No pp is for killing certain bad bacteria. And cleaning such as nets. Like a disinfection. If i bought a second hand filter say. This is what i would clean it out with.
    And we use it to take the top film of k1 and helx13 media. It helps it to mature faster.

    When i did it. I left it to soak in pp over night. Then thoroughly cleaned it off with hose pipe in a fishing net.
    Helps it to mature a lot faster.

    As john said. Put ST in your pond fill up. And chlorine problem is gone. Cheap as chips of ebay.

    When you start adding fish you will have new pond syndrome on your plate. So you will be spiking with ammonia nitrite. So lots of water changes. And the st will be invaluble.
    It took my new pond 18 months to mature. And half my filter media was 8 years old.

    I also have 3 pod filter dechorinater
    They still let clorine through.
    So thats why we use st.
    I trickle in and out at 10% water change a week as well.
    Hope this helps.
    Fred


    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
    Brilliant, thanks again for the advice Freddy . I am planning on having a steady trickle into the pond via a dechlorinator filter, is it still worthwhile having this filter as they still let chlorine through or does it help but not completely stop the chlorine ?

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  3. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Eifion View Post
    Brilliant, thanks again for the advice Freddy . I am planning on having a steady trickle into the pond via a dechlorinator filter, is it still worthwhile having this filter as they still let chlorine through or does it help but not completely stop the chlorine ?
    I still have mine running. But when i tested the water it still has traces of chlorine in the water. So i use both. Filter and st.
    Mainly filter for metal s and stuff.
    St for chlorine

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

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  5. #43
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    https://www.google.com/search?q=koi+...ient=firefox-b

    Used to be on ebay called "koi farmer direct" never been there but bought a few small koi off him via post and spoke on the phone never lost any of his fish and they had good patterns.
    Some slagged him off but like i said i never had any probs with him and he was very helpfull,worth a call.

    St Clears west of Camarthen not too far from you Eifion.
    John

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  7. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    https://www.google.com/search?q=koi+...ient=firefox-b

    Used to be on ebay called "koi farmer direct" never been there but bought a few small koi off him via post and spoke on the phone never lost any of his fish and they had good patterns.
    Some slagged him off but like i said i never had any probs with him and he was very helpfull,worth a call.

    St Clears west of Camarthen not too far from you Eifion.
    Thanks John, I'll give him a call.

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  9. #45
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai anne's Avatar
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    Come on Eifion I'm getting bored, next vid pretty please .

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  11. #46
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai koicarpus's Avatar
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    Hi, pond and surroundings look lovely.
    I also have my filters sited quite some distance from my pond, and in the past have struggled to get good flow with certain pumps due to the amount of pipe work, bends and height to reach the pond returns and shower.
    Just a heads up, good luck, looking good.
    Dave

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  13. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by anne View Post
    Come on Eifion I'm getting bored, next vid pretty please .
    Hi Anne, I nearly did post a video yesterday as there's been an exciting development this week with the window frame, oops I've said too much already . Will definitely be an update on the weekend .

    I'm keeping the camera close at hand for any passing wildlife

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  15. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by koicarpus View Post
    Hi, pond and surroundings look lovely.
    I also have my filters sited quite some distance from my pond, and in the past have struggled to get good flow with certain pumps due to the amount of pipe work, bends and height to reach the pond returns and shower.
    Just a heads up, good luck, looking good.
    Dave
    Thanks Dave, it is a concern, I won't really know how well it flows until it's all up and running . I was going to site the pump in the filter house but it's now going just below the return into the pond . The height of the return will only be a little higher than the pond level so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

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  17. #49
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai koicarpus's Avatar
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    I tried having the pump by the pond and it didn’t work.
    The pump needs to push rather than pull. The long length of pipe behind the pump from your filter won’t be able to supply your pump with the water it needs.
    For example I have a powerful 800w pump a foot from my drum which should have 4” pipe as stated in the spec, like the Flowfriend, but I first did it with 2”, and you could here the pump struggling for water when it was turned up full. Now with 4” pipe it flows a lot faster.
    Hope that makes sense

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  19. #50
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Brandlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koicarpus View Post
    I tried having the pump by the pond and it didnít work.
    The pump needs to push rather than pull. The long length of pipe behind the pump from your filter wonít be able to supply your pump with the water it needs.
    For example I have a powerful 800w pump a foot from my drum which should have 4Ē pipe as stated in the spec, like the Flowfriend, but I first did it with 2Ē, and you could here the pump struggling for water when it was turned up full. Now with 4Ē pipe it flows a lot faster.
    Hope that makes sense

    Err.... that bit in bold is not quite how fluid dynamics works.

    There is NO difference in the performance of an impeller pump "pushing" or "pulling" as you put it. In fact the terms push and pull are misleading - all it is doing is creating a pressure differential between upstream and downstream of the pump.

    The only difference in where the pump is sited is whether you have a restriction (such as a smaller pipe bore) before or after the pump. If the restriction is after the pump then you create back pressure on the pump, making it work harder for lower flow rate. If you have the restriction before the pump then the pump can move water faster than its supplied causing the pump to cavitate. The impact on flow rate is the same - however running your pump in cavitation will significantly reduce its life.

    The issue you are describing is because you had an insufficient supply to your pump. That supply is a factor of the pipe bore and the pressure. In comparison pipe length has a tiny contributing factor.

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  21. #51
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai koicarpus's Avatar
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    Hi Brandlin
    just my findings when I tried the pump by the pond rather than the filter, best I could describe my thoughts.
    I suppose I was trying to say was it’s better to have your pump pushing by the body of water (filter) rather than pulling the water 50 feet away from it.
    You could try using a 4” pipe from your filter to the pump which would help, in a away that obviously a 1” pipe would not.
    I found 2” pipe wasn’t enough for me with 50ft of pipe 8 bends and return to a shower.
    Good luck Eifion, I hope what ever you try works for you.

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  23. #52
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Brandlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eifion View Post
    Thanks Dave, it is a concern, I won't really know how well it flows until it's all up and running . I was going to site the pump in the filter house but it's now going just below the return into the pond . The height of the return will only be a little higher than the pond level so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

    HI Eifion... What kind of pipe lengths and bores are you talking about?

    Whilst it is true that pipe length and fitting have an effect on flow rate there is an awful lot spoken about this in the pond world but often it is misunderstood.

    Its a technically very complex subject (i've said it before fluids are tricky buggers) and the maths is not fully understood. But there are ways of using predictive models based on empirical evidence that are widely available in industry.

    For example- A lot of the pond conversation revolves around 90 degree bends being restrictive - they are. In general on rigid PVC plastic pipe a 90 degree bend offers equivalent resistance to around 20 pipe diameters of pipe length. ie a 90 degree bend in a 2" pipe has resistance equivalent to around 40" of straight 2" pipe.

    But in comparison a stepped pipe reducer from 4" to 2" has an effect almost 30 times greater than the bend (and thats just the stepped reducer, not the effect of the reduced pipe bore)

    I'd be happy to help if you have concerns?

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  25. #53
    Hello Brandlin, it's around 50 feet from the pond to the filter house, to the filter house the pipe diameter is 4" , the planned return to the pond will be 2"or 3" ( if that's enough ? ). There's a couple of 45 degree bends on the way.

    The pump will be sited on the return leg at the pond (just below the return back to the pond ) , I guess what I need to ensure is the flow reaching the pump is great enough to meet the demand from the pump .

  26. #54
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai koicarpus's Avatar
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    Your going to get quite a head loss as well with only one 50 foot 4” feed to the filter.
    What size pond and what turnover do you intend on trying to achieve.
    Before back filling your trench add some spare pipe runs.

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  28. #55
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai koicarpus's Avatar
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    Eifion I’m just trying to help you not make the same mistakes I did.
    Ive just done a few tests for you with my set up.
    4” bottom drain feeding my drum which is 40ft long with 2 bends.
    Turn one pump on (measured to be flowing at 3200gph) I have a 100mm head loss.
    Turn on 2nd pump (measured at 2400gph) I then get a total of 210mm head loss.
    Obviously the drum won’t run with these kind of head losses so I had to plumb the skimmer and an additional 4” Tommy drain into the drum to keep the head loss at an acceptable level for the drum to operate correctly, and I also have quite a large drum filter. Just to add I had to dig another trench through the garden which my mrs was not happy about.
    Dave

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  30. #56
    Thanks Dave, I do really do appreciate your comments / advice .

    I'm still trying to fully understand the dynamics of a gravity fed system, just speaking aloud :

    • the water will equalise throughout to achieve the same level
    • the pump being placed on the return leg next to the pond
    • the water pumped back into the pond will raise the pond level and force water over to the filter house
    • the water will pass through the filter and back to the pump
    • the flow of water at the pump must be sufficient to meet the required flow
    • the flow of water will be affected by the length of pipe, bends in the pipe and reduction in pipe size


    My pond will be about 14,000 ltrs ( so not huge ) , is your setup similar ? Gravity fed filters and the pump on the return or are your pumps pushing the water to the filter ?

    My builders have previously built a pond with the filters further away from the pond, I didn't really question them further on this . I'll have a chat with them on Monday to get more info .

    Cheers

    Eifion

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  32. #57
    Apart from your third bullet point you got it.
    The level of the pond wonít rise. Your pump is just circulating the same volume of water round the closed system.
    The only way your pond level will rise is if your pump is pushing more water than the out feeds from the pond can handle...that would in turn starve your pump.

    Itís just a big loop.

    Like this.
    Take a bath, the plug hole is the bottom drain, the overflow Is the skimmer and fill it up, then chuck some mud and leaves in.
    Connect the two outlets to a washing up bowl with some sponges in... this is your filter.
    Put the bowl on the floor, it will over flow, lift it up higher than the bath, it will empty.
    Have the two at the same level you get equilibrium.
    To get the water to flow round the circuit you put a pump in.
    Before the bowl, all the crap in the bath gets mashed by the pump and into the bowl and all the incy wincy bits pass through the sponges back into your pond, not good.
    Put the pump after the bowl and the big bits get stuck in the sponges, this is good.

    Just made that up, good eh?






    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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  34. #58
    Iím obviously ignoring auto top ups, rain etc.
    Was just my simplistic brain working overtime


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  36. #59
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai koicarpus's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if you've had a pond before Eifion, apologize for telling how to suck eggs.
    So 'head loss' is experienced in gravity fed filters where the water is being pumped from the filter back to the pond.
    People will notice from experience with a Nexus for example, the inner Eazy section is lower than the pond level, and the outer Bio section is even lower while the pump is running.
    Same as people who have barrel filters, from one barrel to the next there will be a decrease in height from barrel to barrel before entering the pond, this is called head loss. This head loss will not equalize all the time the pump is running, all the time your pump is pumping water away from your filter back to the pond, the level of water in the filter will be lower than the pond. This is worse in my situation and yours because the distance of 4" pipe we have between our pond and filter. Because our filters are some distance from the pond our head loss will be greater and the drum has a chance of not operating correctly with the sensors.
    For reference my filter is gravity fed with pump located after the filter, pumping back to the pond, pond is 5500g.
    So lets say in your circumstance your pond is roughly 3500g, you may want to achieve a flow of 2000-3000gph, which could possibly give you a 100mm head loss, you need to check and see if your drum can operate with those levels. With mine it wouldn't, with a 100mm head loss it would be lower than the cleaning probe and be consistently cleaning. Just to recap if your filter was next to your pond then there would be no problem.
    Another problem you may have is if you only have say 2500gph flow through your 50 foot of 4" pipe to filter you will certainly get settlement forming in that kind of distance. You need an easy way to flush your bottom drain to waste before your filter, an absolute must!

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  38. #60
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai koicarpus's Avatar
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    plumbing, head, gravity flow, system curve, etc..

    have a look at the first illustrated diagram s


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