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Thread: Layout drawing for a pond
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08-11-2017, 09:46 AM #21
Umm, maybe I need to rethink this thing. But I had to find out and I have now .
Going to go for a nature pond instead, its official. Thanx immensely for all your help, you have helped me avoid getting in to deep water, quite literally
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11-11-2017, 11:18 AM #22
I can’t believe no one has just said “GET A DRUM”
Yes since getting an AEM drum some months back I apologise because I keep going on about how good they are.
I have had a pond for about 40 years and spent hours and hours trying to improve water clarity and quality. It has been a labour of love, mostly I have enjoyed it but getting in and out of filter bays etc on a cold wet day has lost its appeal.
After much deliberation about justifying the cost of installing a drum I decided when the AEM came available for under £1000 I would go ahead.
I emptied the filter bay and installed the AEM drum followed by a fluidised K1 chamber which most people could make themselves. Also easy for a newbie to get their heads around, bottom drain into drum then into fluidised chamber then back to pond.
I have almost forgotten about filtration now as it all happens without my help and my water parameters are spot on.
I would think this set up is not much more than what it would cost installing conventional bits and pieces.
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11-11-2017, 06:44 PM #23
ROG.G I'm receiving much contradicting information on keeping Koi, everything I've read here seems to make sense, such as, one of the first things I understood to do, was to get a drum, but top of list is a BD.
But I have neighbours who insist that they have kept Koi and were successful at it, elaborating - "without a BD, sieve or skimmer, just a combined pump for filter and waterfall, and aeration provided solely by the waterfall, .7 meter deep and 2000 gallon liner pond at ground level, no heating".
I was told that the fish grew bred and ended up having to be given away as there was so many, also it was admitted that none got bigger than 17inches. Anyway I've changed my mind, but only on the style of pond I want to create and its a less formal type, one with a rockery, waterfall and maybe a small bridge as a feature. I'm still going to introduce Koi when it established and see how it goes.
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11-11-2017, 09:28 PM #24
Been there, done that, and got the tee shirt, but I bet your neighbors couldn’t see the fish at the bottom of the pond or they spent hours cleaning the filters every week. Not to mention all the crud that would collect at the bottom of the pond that I presume they had to vacuum out etc,etc. They may have been lucky but most people with ponds like that suffer problems with water quality and then koi health issues.
Sometimes if your budget is tight (I’ve been there) it’s the only way to have a pond but if you have a choice a drum followed with a biological filter is the way to go.
Even if you decide on more of a natural pond, for what the extra cost is I strongly advise to fit a bottom drain, at least then as you get more interested you can upgrade your filtration etc if you want to.
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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12-11-2017, 07:31 AM #25
agree with roger 100 percent on what he has quoted. i had in ground pond rockery waterfall the lot for 20 years. no bottom drain. nightmare to clean it all the time. could only see the fish when they came to surface for food.. then only there mouth and eye s. a bottom drain is a must. i must have changed my filters four or five times, as time went on. with fish growing. now i am more or less maintenance free with drum and bio filters.
if your building a pond why keep doing it over and over. when you can get it right first time. in the early days there was no internet and forums to learn of other people. now the knowledge is there at the click of a button.
up to you though it s your pond. we can only give advice on our experiences. and what we have learned. all the best fred
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14-11-2017, 08:32 PM #26
I asked the neighbours if they could actually see the fish Rog.G and they said "yes they could", they also talked about need to frequently clean out of the pond and the need for a sump for the fish to retreat to while cleaning was in progress, they mentioned that having a Tench is a good idea as Tench grub around in the bottom of the pond and clean it: I didn't ask the obvious question that if you haven't got a BD it means all the stirred up craps going to go nowhere.
Yep freddyboy I agree "get it right first time" its not so difficult, the information's out there, the internet empowers us to do things so much more easily these days.
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15-11-2017, 01:33 AM #27
Good to see that you are listening to everyone and learning, I have no doubt that you will design and build the best pond you can with the budget you have.
Even if you start with a goldfish pond full of plants,frogs, and newts, I bet you will enjoy it. That’s how a lot of us started in the hobby and then its normal to want to improve things as you learn that koi require a bit more TLC to survive and thrive.
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lee63 Thanked / Liked this Post
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23-11-2017, 08:02 PM #28
Rog.G being responsible for an ecosystem such as a pond with goldfish seems so much better than suddenly finding oneself responsible for the well being of a single 'goldfish swimming around in a plastic bag full of water'... but this is the very situation I found myself in when I won a goldfish as a prize at a fair ground ages and ages ago, like 60 bleedin years ago, the poor creature soon died of course, Same again with the 'Rag n Bone Man' but even earlier in my life I was younger, the Rag Bone man regularly plied his trade round are way, I remember I was aged 4 or 5, you got a gold fish in a bag or a tiny newly hatched chicken that you could nurture and care for and hopefully eventually when it grew big enough eat for your dinner as a reward for your bag of old clothes.
Later on it was deep water filled pits, (from clay extraction and open cast coal mining) amazing newts and frogs, the newts though ? huge black things with high frilled backs and black spotted yellow bellies, tiny dinosaurs, though scaleless as they were amphibians. Sometimes the sides of these pits were steep and the water very deep children died, lots of them, I remember one hot summer with pals and me having lots of fun with a raft on a deep pit and when the raft (it was big and waterlogged thing) finally turned over you could feel the cold of the water deeper down being dragged up.
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23-11-2017, 10:38 PM #29
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24-11-2017, 12:33 PM #30
Rog.G
Almost all of those pits have been filled in thank goodness.
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24-11-2017, 02:21 PM #31
What your neighbour gave us basically a ticking time bomb before something happens and they start losing fish. Also they probably gave low quality koi aka mutts which can survive poorer water quality.
My dad had this type of pond then one winter we had bad snow and ice which resulted in all the fish dying at once.
If you want the best for you koi then a BD gravity fed system is the best way. Especially when you start buying better quality koi.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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24-11-2017, 03:08 PM #32
all my koi are mutts as laura call them,but i still wanted the best i could afford for them,so my 2nd pond had to have a bd and gravity feed to filter,and a skimmer,andi
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24-11-2017, 05:38 PM #33
Yep Laura my neighbour's story keeping Koi didn't have a happy ending, what happened was that he moved house, but for some reason gave all his fish to someone else with a pond, he said every last fish was taken by herons, unfortunately the location of the new pond was at a village called Minworth, its very near to what's thought be the largest sewage farm in the country, to many herons there for sure.
A thought on BD's though: couldn't they be more easily constructed in to the structure of the pond as in the drawing below? if it were possible to do it like this it would totally eliminate leakage problems while improving structural integrity of the pond.
BD.jpg
Are mutts mutants?
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24-11-2017, 07:25 PM #34
Google says mutts is "none discernible type", still must just be Koi then, I guess.
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25-11-2017, 09:52 AM #35
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25-11-2017, 02:26 PM #36
Its pretty rare for people to have a leak linked to the bottom drain or its pipework. I know it seems daunting when you havent done this before.
The most common leak people get on a new pond build seems to be from around or in the skimmer. Its easy to drain down to that level to get more sealant on though.2016 new 6000 gallon pond
https://www.koiforum.uk/pond-construc...ghlight=feline
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25-11-2017, 08:41 PM #37
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Don't listen to them mate. You will also encounter blokes in pubs/work/gym (its usually pubs though) that will tell you they have got koi *stretches out arms* this big and they dont need a bottom drain/skimmer/air pump/filter/water etc
It's aaaalllllllllllll bo11ocks mate.
One of my clients mentioned he had kept koi for years. He said he had a big pond and 2ft koi in there. I thought "Sounds amazing". Then one day he asked me to do some water tests for him. I went round and his pond was about 800 litres with half a dozen 4 inch shubunkins in there.
Ask your neighbours....
A sump the fish could retreat to when they cleaned the pond? Could you ask them to elaborate? Because obviously all the horridness would be in the deepest part of the pond. Moreso when it's cleaned. How do they get that out with the fish in there? How big IS the sump to be able to fit all those big koi in there?
Also....
*Sigh* The Tench Myth...
Tench grub around in the bottom of the pond and clean it? What? Do they have little buckets to scoop up the other fishes waste?
My parents were sold 3 tench by somebody spouting the same nonsense. The tench live in my pond. I'm going to have to have a stern word with them because clearly, they aren't earning their keep in my pond.
Tench are bottom feeders and therefore do seek food in the bottom part of the pond. Unless you feed a sinking food though, the koi will eat it before they get chance. Tench do not eat fish waste, decaying leaves and other debris.
Good to see you more or less worked out that the tench thing is a load of nonsense.
How come your neighbours don't successfully keep koi any longer?
Ponds CAN work without a bottom drain but they work better with one.
Just like....
You could've drawn your pond plan with crayons but its better using a graphics package.
Just like...
You COULD cut your grass with garden shears but you'd be better off using a mower.
Just like...
I COULD continue giving examples that are progressively sillier or i could just stop there.
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25-11-2017, 10:06 PM #38
Advice received here is endlessly appreciated, thanks to all, hey I'm repeating myself but its true and I really do need the advice.
These neighbours I've got are new ones, they are old guys, two brothers, ex builders and they really do know stuff, they have done great work on the houses they purchased, they give me lots of advice on home improvements and as I'm always developing and improving my house its a big help and in return I hand on knowledge I possess on various stuff to them and we all get on great together. I never want to be condescending towards them, so I'm careful on matters I'm not absolutely sure of, no doubt they will be immensely interested when I start the pond, and if I do something like 'put a skimmer in' I will no doubt be trying to explain and defend myself for having done so, but an anoxic filter might be something else altogether again I'm sure, but anyway, its all fun
Now how noisy is a pump room going to be? I have another neighbour right next to me
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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25-11-2017, 11:37 PM #39
Depends on what its made of
here is mine IMG_0530 (2).jpg045.jpg
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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26-11-2017, 02:51 PM #40
GOSAI your pump rooms insulated as well as very comprehensive looking, is that insulation for noise, or is it for keeping the room warm?
Every day feeding container?
Good shout, I'll have a look at Takazumi :)