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  1. #1
    Member Rank = Nisai Skywalker's Avatar
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    Sieve - Good or Bad advice

    Hi All,
    I've been given 2 different pieces of advice on my filter/sieve set up and hoped that someone could give their opinions on how i should set it up.

    I've been planning to alter my filter set up to accommodate a Midisieve and a K1 Micro filter. I have limited space around my pond so wanted to place the sieve immediately next to the pond and put the Filter and pump about 6 metres away in a shed. The top of my pond is about knee height so the sieve will be quite dug in below ground level to make it gravity fed which i know is the correct set up and allow the pump, which is at "Ground Level" but below water level to withdraw/suck the water from the sieve to feed the filter. However the waste outlet of the sieve will also most likely be below ground level and will be below the pump.

    Now the issue is I originally was given advice that it would be fine to put the pump in my shed 6m away as the Sieve has a Float to prevent the Waste outlet and Sieve Mesh being flooded as the pump is above the Mesh and waste outlet. But now i've been advised to put the pump immediately after the Sieve as the Mesh WILL flood if the pump is above the waste outlet.

    Could somebody give their advice please?

    I've attached a schematic of the set up to explain myself better (if it has worked!!)

    Thanks
    Jason


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  2. #2
    Yup,

    You're gonna have a flood of biblical proportions The thing to remember is that this may look good when the pump is running but what will happen when it stops. The water levels in all tanks/vessels/whatever will want to rise to the pond level.

  3. #3
    Member Rank = Nisai Skywalker's Avatar
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    I understand that but what is the solution? If i put the pump 6m away from the sieve the water will be effectively flowing uphill to the pump but will still be below the maximum pond water level. I don't think that's a problem.

    The issue I have is the waste outlet being potentially flooded because it will be below the level of the pump. I don't know if the float in the sieve will prevent the mesh being flooded or not.

    I've had 2 pieces of advice, 1 saying yes it will flood and 1 saying it won't!! Which is it?

    Cheers
    Jason

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  4. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion lee63's Avatar
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    I personally would put the pump directly from the sieve mate. pumps are designed to push not pull so you would find unless you are using 4 inch outlet from the sieve up to the pump then it would struggle to draw over that distance. Also if the pump is higher than the waste then the water level in the sieve will initially have to be above the pump for gravity to do its work and flood the pump (or it will have to be primed from the outlet end) having the checkvalve will keep whats in the pipework in there, effectively keeping the pump primed though so would work. check valves are reknowned for passing and restricting flow though so personally to save the bother i wouldnt use one. The least bothersome way imo is pump direct from the sieve to the shed/k1 tank. This will be less of a headache if things go wrong and will give alot better flow for sure.


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  5. #5
    That's a good idea Lee. The pump would always be flooded and, when it stops, the sieve will be safely above the pond water level so the garden won't be.

    Also I agree, I don't see any reason for the check valve.

  6. #6
    Member Rank = Nisai Skywalker's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies.

    I'll be using a gate valve between the bottom drain and Sieve as a cut off for any possible maitainence and to help purge the drain when necessary. I had planned to use the check valve immediately after the Sieve before the rise to the pump and use a priming pot before entry to the pump so it wouldn't run dry. I was planning on 2" pipe for the 6m run to and from the filter.

    It's mainly due to the lack of space around the pond area that i originally asked the question to someone and i received different advice to what you have both suggested. But i think i'll use your advice as i can see the benefit of having the pump in close proximity to the sieve.

    But please answer this.......... If i don't use a check valve to prevent the flow back from the filter, won't the filter empty if i do have a problem? I'll have 6m of water in the pipe plus whatever is in the filter as backflow.
    Or have i misunderstood something here?

  7. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion lee63's Avatar
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    Depends how the filter is set up. If its top fill then no it wouldnt back flow, only whats in the 6mtr pipe run would. If it is bottom fill then yes the filter will act as a header tank and thus drain down via the pipe run until level with the pond water level.
    As you say you are installing a valve after the pump so during maintenance its just simply a case of shutting the valve. In the case of pump failure then it wont do a thing lol but most pumps are quite reliable these days so i wouldnt think that way too much obviously its good to cover all aspects so if it can be done then i would suggest having the filter as a top fill, this should eliminate that senario ever happening. Oh and to be fair I would personally use a ball valve rather than a gate valve. They're the Same price and a whole lot more reliable. The seals eventually go on the gate valves which causes them to pass badly. The can be changed out but to replace them means taking the valve apart, which isnt a good option in a tight space on a pipe full of water



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  8. #8
    Member Rank = Nisai Skywalker's Avatar
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    Ok thanks Lee and Manky. I appreciate the advice very much. I said i was using a Gate valve but it's actually a Valterra Slide Valve on 4" pipework. The ball valve was about £80 dearer than the Valterra valve!!

    I think the filter is Top fill as it has to go through the Multi port valve located 2/3rds up to fill the filter so i guess it won't empty out.
    I think most of my queries regarding the set up have been answered here so i appreciate your inputs.

    One other thing.... I'm using a Sequence 10000 pump. I'm not sure if thats going to give me enough output. If i need to upgrade, can you recommend a pump without robbing a bank?

  9. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion lee63's Avatar
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    Sieve - Good or Bad advice

    Ah i see so its a bead replaced with micro k1 filter (or bead type). Right the sequence should cope with that absolutlely no problems but if for some reason it doesnt or you have an unlucky failure then im sure a superfish model will manage it too, one of the larger output models say 12000/15000 alot cheaper to run and buy than the sequence pumps but they dont have as much grunt. I dont run a bead type filter personally mate so i cant really help with it but ive see alot of folk on here say that the superfish can cope when using k1
    Hope it all goes well skywalker, let us know how you get on.


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  10. #10
    Member Rank = Nisai Skywalker's Avatar
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    Cheers Lee. I had a lot of heartache last year with poor water quality based on the type of filter I was using (a black box mega) which just couldn't cope. I lost several fish to disease. So I'm implementing a significant upgrade in time for warmer weather.

    I want to get it right this time and if further changes are necessary, make them easier to implement than with the setup I currently have. As I said space is a real issue.

    When it's all complete and the wife has here garden back!, I'll write a progress report that can hopefully benefit others. But cheers for all your advice.

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  12. #11
    whiskey1944
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    I have two super-fish pumps on my sieve one 20,000 for shower and 15,000 to bead, both fitted directly after sieve with a non return valve halfway between pump and bead and had no problems since changing from pump feed to gravity feed.
    best move I ever done in mho.

  13. #12
    Member Rank = Nisai Skywalker's Avatar
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    Thanks Whiskey. I've had a look at them online and they get rave reviews. The only thing i'd question is the reviews say that they are not great at pushing at height. I also have to consider the distance. Any experience of that? Also what type of connections do they have. I'm hoping it's 2" or would i have to convert to that.
    Cheers

  14. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion lee63's Avatar
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    Hi skywalker, i have a superfish 12,000 on my BD line (its a retro BD and pump is in pond but that runs up and over the pond wall and about 6 mtrs to the compact seive in filter shed which is ultimately around 2 meters + higher than the pump 6 meters away its all 1.5 inch piping too. When i roughly measured the flow i get about 7.5-8000 ltrs through the sieve if that helps? The inlet and outlet on the pump is 1.5 inch also but you can use reducing boots to any size you want.


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  15. #14
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    Cheers Lee. You're probably quite familar with my desired set up now! The reason i ask is i'm considering putting a Shower after the filter/UV which could ultimately change from sieve 2" to pump 1 1/2" then back to filter 2" then back to 1 1/2" for the shower. And it will be about 1 1/2mtrs above the pump level which you said should be next to the Sieve and then travelling the 6m there and back to my filter. I'm knackered thinking about it!! Lol. Would a 12000 or 15000 be sufficient? My pond is about 1700g.

  16. #15
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion lee63's Avatar
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    My pond is 2000 gal but thats not including my top pond and filters. Its a retro drain pumped to a compact (pump fed) sieve sat above the first bay of an 8ft x 2.5 x 2.5ft 5 bay multibay filter through numerous medias into top/planted pond then over water blade back to pond. (Oh and theres a uv inline on that before the sieve so theres more restriction) Main filter gets around 7.5-8000 flow. I also have a widemouth skimmer that has a dry mounted pond pro 5500 pump on it to a DIY filter that returns to the top pond. I get about 11-12000ltr flow over the blade per hour which is a little better than an hourly turn over rate. Thats just to give a better idea for you.
    I think if your going to double up ie distance from pump/sieve to bead then to shower all off the same pump then you will need something with some grunt and i dont know if the superfishes will manage that. Although if your using 2" piperuns it should push alot more flow than mine does due to less pipe restriction.



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  17. #16
    whiskey1944
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    My pumps are attached with the use of flexable straight fitting....and 2" slots over perfectly.
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