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  1. #1
    Member Rank = Tosai Kyliewantsme's Avatar
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    8”Koi lying on its side at the bottom

    Well it’s been very warm today and we’ve just had a massive thunderstorm. Came home to find one of my koi lying at the bottom of the pond. She seems to be gasping and moving her pectoral fins. Occasionally she will make an effort to move but just settles on the bottom again. She’s been eating well up until I saw her this evening.

    Ph is 7.4, usually around 7 to 7.2
    nitrates are trace
    ammonia barely visible on the chart

    I’ve had the waterfall running all day and the oxygenator is on 24/7

    I decided to drain 20% of the water and replenish through my Vyair system.

    Can’t think of what else to do. Ideas anyone?


    1000 gallons, approximately 3ft deep
    Hozelock Bioforce Revolution 9000
    Sanke, ogon, ghost, shusui,

  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    What about nitrites?
    Did you measure KH?
    Is 7.4 normal for your PH?

    If there's plenty of oxygen going in and nitrites are zero then I can't think of anything else related to the heat that it could be.

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  4. #3
    Member Rank = Tosai Kyliewantsme's Avatar
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    Thanks for the kind reply.
    Remarkably, she’s still alive this morning. Still seems to be gasping and still lying on her side at the bottom. I’ll retest the water tonight now that the pond has refilled and probably do another 20% change.
    All the other fish look lively enough, so maybe it’s a parasite or other infection and just a coincidence she hit the bottom after the storm yesterday.
    I don't have the equipment to take a scrape, but she does appear to be a little bloated. Fingers crossed that she will recover but I’m fearing the worst.
    1000 gallons, approximately 3ft deep
    Hozelock Bioforce Revolution 9000
    Sanke, ogon, ghost, shusui,

  5. #4
    Member Rank = Tosai Kyliewantsme's Avatar
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    Update.

    She recovered overnight and is swimming and taking food. Looks a bit wobbly and definitely has popeye on both eyes. Scales seem normal and not raised.
    I’m pleased that she’s now up and about but just need to figure out the underlying cause of this condition.

    I bought a new testing kit because the other one was out of date. Results as follows:
    nitrate/nitrite 0
    ammonia 0
    phosphate 0
    pH 7.6

    So the water seems ok.

    Waterfall has been running all week but I intend to improve the oxygenator for a better unit. A microscope seems like a sound investment at this point.
    oh and I did introduce a blanket weed treatment last weekend but reviews say it’s fish-safe. Maybe with the hot weather, my timing could have been better.
    1000 gallons, approximately 3ft deep
    Hozelock Bioforce Revolution 9000
    Sanke, ogon, ghost, shusui,

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  7. #5
    Member Rank = Tosai Kyliewantsme's Avatar
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    Another update.

    She’s still breathing and swimming around but the popeye is very pronounced and she looks bloated.

    I saw her this morning hovering just by the waterfall which is quite shallow so I managed to get a good look at her. Although the scales don’t appear to be raised, she’s more barrel shaped rather than streamlined now, if you know what I mean. I’ll try to get a photo up.

    Tested the water again and all seemed in spec’ apart from the ph which read around 6. I retested and it read around 8.5 so I’m confused. I'm using the API pond testing drop kit. I also used my digital ph meter which read 8.6 but it’s not calibrated so I don’t trust it. Ammonia retests both clear or negligible.

    I will redo the tests tonight. I do feel that I’m going to lose her, make me sad to see her in this state.

    Oh, and I added some sludge buster to clean up the crud that has inevitably built up at the bottom. Pond is coming up to its first anniversary.
    1000 gallons, approximately 3ft deep
    Hozelock Bioforce Revolution 9000
    Sanke, ogon, ghost, shusui,

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  9. #6
    Ya need to follow the directions exactly to achieve a true reading and if you get below 7 on the PH you could see a crash and it will kill all of them.. You don't mention KH, can you test for it?

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  11. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyliewantsme View Post
    Another update.

    She’s still breathing and swimming around but the popeye is very pronounced and she looks bloated.

    I saw her this morning hovering just by the waterfall which is quite shallow so I managed to get a good look at her. Although the scales don’t appear to be raised, she’s more barrel shaped rather than streamlined now, if you know what I mean. I’ll try to get a photo up.

    Tested the water again and all seemed in spec’ apart from the ph which read around 6. I retested and it read around 8.5 so I’m confused. I'm using the API pond testing drop kit. I also used my digital ph meter which read 8.6 but it’s not calibrated so I don’t trust it. Ammonia retests both clear or negligible.

    I will redo the tests tonight. I do feel that I’m going to lose her, make me sad to see her in this state.

    Oh, and I added some sludge buster to clean up the crud that has inevitably built up at the bottom. Pond is coming up to its first anniversary.
    I use API master test kit. Sometimes I get a different reading to what is normal.
    9 times out of 10. It's because I haven't given the bottle a good enough shake.
    So I then do two more to confirm.
    As trapper has quoted PH if wrong you could lose all your fish.
    Sounds to me. Going by what your quoting
    The fish has a swim bladder problem. Or dropsy.
    Any photos
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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  13. #8
    Member Rank = Tosai Kyliewantsme's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies gents.

    I’m reluctant to try and net her but if she sits in the shallows like the other morning, I should be able to catch or at least photograph her. She’s currently in the deep end by the waterfall and has the occasional flashing foray around the pond. Which is a worry.

    Retested the water again for three consecutive tests;
    pH 8 to 8.5
    Ammonia negligible.
    Nitrite 0
    Phosphate in range.
    I don’t have the test for carbonate kh

    I’ll let the sludge buster do its work then try a few water changes as I feel the ph is one digit higher than it was with the older test kit.

    Please understand I'm new to all of this, so your advice is well received and much appreciated.
    Cliff
    1000 gallons, approximately 3ft deep
    Hozelock Bioforce Revolution 9000
    Sanke, ogon, ghost, shusui,

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  15. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyliewantsme View Post
    Thanks for the replies gents.

    I’m reluctant to try and net her but if she sits in the shallows like the other morning, I should be able to catch or at least photograph her. She’s currently in the deep end by the waterfall and has the occasional flashing foray around the pond. Which is a worry.

    Retested the water again for three consecutive tests;
    pH 8 to 8.5
    Ammonia negligible.
    Nitrite 0
    Phosphate in range.
    I don’t have the test for carbonate kh

    I’ll let the sludge buster do its work then try a few water changes as I feel the ph is one digit higher than it was with the older test kit.

    Please understand I'm new to all of this, so your advice is well received and much appreciated.
    Cliff
    Understood mate.
    What filters have you got.
    And have you got a microscope to do scrapes.
    Have you got good air going into the pond.
    Also how often are you cleaning filters.
    Do you use dechlorinator when doing water changes
    Also test your tap water for Kh ph ammonia.nitrite and nitrate
    Pond volume
    And how many fish
    Also put on here where you live and ask if anyone lives near you to come and help.
    Sorry for all the questions mate. Trying to help.
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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  17. #10
    Member Rank = Tosai Kyliewantsme's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice Fred.
    I fall into that category of, ‘I should have made it bigger!’ ‘I should’ve done it differently.’

    We had a romantic idea to build an ornamental pond with a waterfall in memory of her mother and a few fish to watch on a summers evening and relax with beer in hand when all is good with the world.

    Since that day I’ve realised that three foot deep for a 1000 gallon pond with six koi is not deep enough. The Bioforce Revolution is in theory capable of moving the water around through the filters. It has a UV lamp integrated and I changed that this spring.

    I Clean the filters twice a week by cranking the handle with the dirty water evacuated via a hose to water my hanging baskets. ��

    I use a Vyair water filter to trickle fresh water, using a volume meter to ensure I don’t exceed the recommended 20l/minute. (Reading the forum I think I need some thiosulphate addition). Good call on testing the dechlorinated water, should’ve thought about that.

    We run the waterfall during the day and I have an oxygenator running 10l/minute. (I know I need more and am researching units)

    Answers to other questions in my signature, or in the thread.

    Basically I’m playing at it and I now realise even for a small hole in the ground, you still have to fill it with money. But I do tend to throw myself into things 100% it’s just my evenings are not relaxing as I’d hoped, I’m checking water, cleaning filters, topping up and looking for clues with the koi behaviour.

    Importantly, Reading experiences on this forum is teaching me a lot and quickly. I really should have listened to my dad when he had his pond and he was banging on about filtration and feeding.... bless him.
    Cliff
    Last edited by Kyliewantsme; 01-08-2019 at 09:41 AM.
    1000 gallons, approximately 3ft deep
    Hozelock Bioforce Revolution 9000
    Sanke, ogon, ghost, shusui,

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  19. #11
    Member Rank = Tosai Kyliewantsme's Avatar
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    Picture of Lagertha aka Popeye taking last night. It was getting dark, so apologies for the poor quality photos.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Kyliewantsme; 01-08-2019 at 04:04 PM.
    1000 gallons, approximately 3ft deep
    Hozelock Bioforce Revolution 9000
    Sanke, ogon, ghost, shusui,

  20. #12
    Member Rank = Tosai Kyliewantsme's Avatar
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    A couple more.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    1000 gallons, approximately 3ft deep
    Hozelock Bioforce Revolution 9000
    Sanke, ogon, ghost, shusui,

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  22. #13
    Member Rank = Tosai Kyliewantsme's Avatar
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    I’ve just done a 10% water change as ph is up to 8.6. I calibrated my hand held ph meter and compared it against the API drop test. I think it is too high.

    @ Fred, I did as you suggested and tested the dechlorinated water. It came out at 7.2 ph and no ammonia.

    The good news is that Lagertha’s eyes are noticeably better and she’s taking food. Not out of the woods yet, but I’m more hopeful than earlier in the week.

    Oh, and if anyone can tell me what sort of koi she is, I’d be grateful.
    Cliff
    1000 gallons, approximately 3ft deep
    Hozelock Bioforce Revolution 9000
    Sanke, ogon, ghost, shusui,

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  24. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Good to hear. Looks a little promising.



    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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  26. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Alburglar's Avatar
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    I am No expert but it certainly fits the bill for Doitsu Ki Matsuba. Someone more experienced may see something in the markings which alters that tho. Glad its coming round.
    Last edited by Alburglar; 02-08-2019 at 08:50 PM.

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  28. #16
    Member Rank = Tosai Kyliewantsme's Avatar
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    Back to normal. 100% recovery.

    [IMG]blob:https://www.koiforum.uk/451fa631-a963-489e-880e-bc4b38fc8f27[/IMG]
    1000 gallons, approximately 3ft deep
    Hozelock Bioforce Revolution 9000
    Sanke, ogon, ghost, shusui,

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  30. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyliewantsme View Post
    Back to normal. 100% recovery.

    [IMG]blob:https://www.koiforum.uk/451fa631-a963-489e-880e-bc4b38fc8f27[/IMG]
    good to hear mate. we use dpd4 chlorine testing tablets for testing chlorine
    and use these for killing of chlorine when doing water changes and her is a site to learn all about water and other things to help with the pond just click on home Home
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sodium-Th...f8fdf245498c99


    hope this helps
    fred
    Last edited by freddyboy; 15-09-2019 at 12:47 PM.

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