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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Gray's Avatar
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    Flashing Koi, water looking good?!?

    I posted this on my pond build three but thought maybe I should post here instead so here goes...



    I have noticed two of my Koi having a little flash every now and again. They’re not doing it frequently but if I watch for maybe 30mins I might see one of them do it.

    Seems to only be two of them at the movement.

    I test the water every few days as standard and latest results from Sunday are as follows:

    KH - 5
    GH - 8
    PO4 - 5 (dealing with this high reading - slowly!)
    NO2 - 0.1
    PH - 8
    NO3 - 0.1
    NH3 - 0

    To me, nothing seems amiss with the parameters but do let me know if I’m missing something!

    So regards the flashing, does anyone have any guidance on what could be causing this and what I should investigate?

    Final note, I run the air all through the late evening and overnight and tend to leave it off during the day - 8am until 6pm - just FYI in case it has a bearing.



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    I posted this on my pond build three but thought maybe I should post here instead so here goes...



    I have noticed two of my Koi having a little flash every now and again. They’re not doing it frequently but if I watch for maybe 30mins I might see one of them do it.

    Seems to only be two of them at the movement.

    I test the water every few days as standard and latest results from Sunday are as follows:

    KH - 5
    GH - 8
    PO4 - 5 (dealing with this high reading - slowly!)
    NO2 - 0.1
    PH - 8
    NO3 - 0.1
    NH3 - 0

    To me, nothing seems amiss with the parameters but do let me know if I’m missing something!

    So regards the flashing, does anyone have any guidance on what could be causing this and what I should investigate?

    Final note, I run the air all through the late evening and overnight and tend to leave it off during the day - 8am until 6pm - just FYI in case it has a bearing.
    hi mate I replied to your thread.
    My fish don t like the air off mate.
    They attack the dome. As in bodily
    Flashing.
    Try leaving the air on for a couple of days and see if there is a differance
    In the flashing.
    If its the same. There flashing. Net them and do scrapes.
    Also after feeding you sometimes get fish flash. As ammonia slightly alters. And more sensitive flash
    For a little while and once the filters do there job they settle back down.
    The only thing i can think of. After that. Is scrapes and microscope.
    Fred

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Gray's Avatar
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    Flashing Koi, water looking good?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    hi mate I replied to your thread.
    Cheers Fred, for both replies!

    Now you mention it, one of the Koi does flash against / near the dome. Didn’t occur to me until you said.

    The other one just flashes on the bottom in random places.

    To be fair, I’ve only seen them do it a handful of times so I’m going to try keeping the air on for a few days and also I’ll keep a longer watch after the feed to see also.

    Appreciate the advice as always! Flashing Koi, water looking good?!?

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    Cheers Fred, for both replies!

    Now you mention it, one of the Koi does flash against / near the dome. Didn’t occur to me until you said.

    The other one just flashes on the bottom in random places.

    To be fair, I’ve only seen them do it a handful of times so I’m going to try keeping the air on for a few days and also I’ll keep a longer watch after the feed to see also.

    Appreciate the advice as always! Flashing Koi, water looking good?!?
    Anytime mate. I had mine on a timer for about 3 months. And one day i just clicked. And they stopped. I am not saying that is your problem.
    But its one to cross of the list. Mate.


    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

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  8. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    Anytime mate. I had mine on a timer for about 3 months. And one day i just clicked. And they stopped. I am not saying that is your problem.
    But its one to cross of the list. Mate.


    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
    Nice one. I’ll try anything before netting and scraping as I really don’t want to interfere with the Koi unnecessarily.

    I’ll give it go!

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Handy Kenny's Avatar
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    Gray,

    In my head most Koi will flash now and again which is just a bit like you scratching your head, and some may do it more than others. I reckon my pond is fairly "settled" now and running reasonably smoothly. I have been using Supertab from Blackburn House Koi which seems to work for me, I use it all year round but up the dosage in Spring/Early summer to combat the pesky quickly growing bacteria etc when the koi immune systems are still at a low level. I dose weekly and if I forget for a week I start to see Koi flashing, add the Supertab and they have stopped within hours. When I clean out the pond with a brush or am working around my planted areas I may add an extra wee dose of Supertab in case I have disturbed anything as the potency reduces when there is more bacteria. An added benefit of the Supertab is less green stuff in and around the pond walls.

    Kenny

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handy Kenny View Post
    Gray,

    In my head most Koi will flash now and again which is just a bit like you scratching your head, and some may do it more than others. I reckon my pond is fairly "settled" now and running reasonably smoothly. I have been using Supertab from Blackburn House Koi which seems to work for me, I use it all year round but up the dosage in Spring/Early summer to combat the pesky quickly growing bacteria etc when the koi immune systems are still at a low level. I dose weekly and if I forget for a week I start to see Koi flashing, add the Supertab and they have stopped within hours. When I clean out the pond with a brush or am working around my planted areas I may add an extra wee dose of Supertab in case I have disturbed anything as the potency reduces when there is more bacteria. An added benefit of the Supertab is less green stuff in and around the pond walls.

    Kenny
    Cheers Kenny, sounds like some Supertab could be a beer piece to have in the arsenal. I’ve left the air on for a few days now and haven’t seen any flashing. Might have missed it as it’s quite sporadic but I’ll keep going with the air for a bit and if I see flashing I’ll try Supertab.

    If that has no joy then I’ll have to scrape the two Koi and have a look.

    Thanks.

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  14. #8
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Supertab didn't go down well the last time it came up .... https://www.koiforum.uk/water-treatm...e-dioxide.html

    You've got a slight Nitrite reading ... that also could be a reason for an odd lazy flash.

    I've been studying fish flashing for years now ... some will flash: after feeding, ... after water change, ... after adding too much bicarb at one time, ... other changes in environment such as already mentioned ... etc. etc. and it can be essentially harmless.

    If I see a fish giving the odd lazy flash ... I don't panic I just mentally note it for further observation ... if it regularly/constantly flashes or other's start doing it regularly too when there are none of the obvious reasons as mentioned then it's time for further investigation with water tests and thorough mucus scrapes.

    I always try the simple stuff first ... getting water perfect then observation and noting when it's happening if it continues ...

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    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Another thing I just thought of is ... a lot of us use Sodium Thiosulphate for de-chlorination.

    Sodium Thiosulphate also neutralises Chlorine Dioxide (supertab) ... The dosage suggested on the packet is (0.01 - 0.04mg/L) which is only 0.01 - 0.04 PPM ... to put that in perspective my chlorine levels here can fluctuate between 0.65PPM - 1.5PPM ... so I dose for 1.5PPM .... I'm sure this leaves residual ST buildup in the water as I have seen PP treatments neutralising far earlier than expected in the past.

    IMO I think that tiny amount and even much larger doses of Chlorine Dioxide would be neutralised immediately by any residual Sodium Thiosulphate in the water (which I'm sure is present in just about every pond where ST is used).

    So I think Chlorine Dioxide would be a bit of a "gamble" for anybody using Sodium Thiosulphate ....

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Gray's Avatar
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    Thanks Trace, very interesting.

    To be honest I have come to the conclusion, for now, that I’m going to watch and wait. Haven’t seen any flashes for a few days now so quite possibly Freddy’s solution around leaving the air on may have done the trick.

    I’m not one for leaving things untreated but I’m very aware that my filters ain’t up to the full job just yet so they could cause a few hiccups - maybe this is one.

    I’m going to keep a watchful eye on the Koi tomorrow, I’m at home all day, and see if notice any flashes.

    I’ve seen them all feed twice today with their usual veracity and checked them all out via the window and they all seem happy with fins up and feeding.

    Hopefully just a blip. Flashing Koi, water looking good?!?

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    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    Thanks Trace, very interesting.

    To be honest I have come to the conclusion, for now, that I’m going to watch and wait. Haven’t seen any flashes for a few days now so quite possibly Freddy’s solution around leaving the air on may have done the trick.

    I’m not one for leaving things untreated but I’m very aware that my filters ain’t up to the full job just yet so they could cause a few hiccups - maybe this is one.

    I’m going to keep a watchful eye on the Koi tomorrow, I’m at home all day, and see if notice any flashes.

    I’ve seen them all feed twice today with their usual veracity and checked them all out via the window and they all seem happy with fins up and feeding.

    Hopefully just a blip. Flashing Koi, water looking good?!?
    That's the best way ... the more experience you get the more you'll relax, pulling fish and scraping at every little bit of unusual behaviour will just cause trouble.

    With your filter still maturing ... there's a 99.9% chance that is why you are seeing these flashes, filters can take ages to mature so expect to see some more ... let us know how the observation and water tests etc. goes ...

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Sometimes it is better to sit on your hands and watch watch watch Gray..

    That is my opinion.
    John

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  24. #13
    Have you done a PH test in the am and pm to see how much it fluctuates? With a KH of only 5 I would say that it does and when this happens it will make the more sensitive fish react. I try to keep my KH at 8 deg or drops to keep the PH stable..

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trapper View Post
    Have you done a PH test in the am and pm to see how much it fluctuates? With a KH of only 5 I would say that it does and when this happens it will make the more sensitive fish react. I try to keep my KH at 8 deg or drops to keep the PH stable..
    Cheers Trapper.

    I was advised to do that and funnily enough literally testing the PH now tonight (10pm) and intend on testing again at 7.30am tomorrow.

    I usually keep my KH at 6 and dosed with bicarb yesterday so hoping it’s pushed it back up a wee bit.

    I’ll see in 15mins when my testing is done! Flashing Koi, water looking good?!?

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Gray's Avatar
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    So last night’s PH test was at 8.5. Higher than the usual 8 that I see.

    This morning’s test was also 8.5.

    So, both were/are the same at the moment.

    I’ve changed out some of the water and dosed with a little more bicarb to push the KH up and maybe help buffer the PH if it is indeed needed.

    Will test again fully tonight and see where I’m at.

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  30. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Gray's Avatar
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    I’ve sat outside for some time this morning and watched the Koi whilst working. The two are still flashing and now a third Koi has started to have a go.

    Latest test results from yesterday:

    KH - 7
    GH - 5
    PO4 - 5
    NO2 - 0.25
    PH - 8.5
    NO3 - 0.5
    NH3 - 0

    So they are not perfect at all but not wild from what I can see. Unless I’ve missed something?

    I’m going to ditch a good deal of water now (maybe 25%) and then top up.

    I’ll see what difference this makes but I think I could be in need of getting a few Koi out to scrape would you say?

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  32. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    I’ve sat outside for some time this morning and watched the Koi whilst working. The two are still flashing and now a third Koi has started to have a go.

    Latest test results from yesterday:

    KH - 7
    GH - 5
    PO4 - 5
    NO2 - 0.25
    PH - 8.5
    NO3 - 0.5
    NH3 - 0

    So they are not perfect at all but not wild from what I can see. Unless I’ve missed something?

    I’m going to ditch a good deal of water now (maybe 25%) and then top up.

    I’ll see what difference this makes but I think I could be in need of getting a few Koi out to scrape would you say?
    Would nt do any harm

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    Would nt do any harm

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    I’ve pulled my Dad’s scope I’ve got out of the workshop so will have a fiddle with it tonight to get the hang of it.

    I’ll be following you scope advice above for sure!

    Hoping it doesn’t come to netting the Koi but if needs must then I will.

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    I’ve pulled my Dad’s scope I’ve got out of the workshop so will have a fiddle with it tonight to get the hang of it.

    I’ll be following you scope advice above for sure!

    Hoping it doesn’t come to netting the Koi but if needs must then I will.
    Best to make sure. I thought they had stopped flashing mate. Something ain't right.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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  38. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    Best to make sure. I thought they had stopped flashing mate. Something ain't right.

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    When I bowl mine for a scrape. I put half the depth of water for the koi body.
    Also give them a spin four or five times like make them dizzy. Then turn upside down.
    I find that easier.
    Some might differ but that's what I do.
    Good luck mate. It's all a learning curve.
    And once done a few times builds confidence.
    I have one fish my chagoi. Fights like hell.
    I have to get my grandson to hold it while I scrape.
    Lollipop sticks are good for scrape.
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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