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Thread: Costia - Help!

  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Costia - Help!

    For the first time in over 10 years I am going to have to treat my Pond! - costia found - one koi very sick several others sulking.

    I have PP in stock but I'm worried my pond has a huge organic load in the wildlife section + loads of frogs about at the moment. Would I be better off treating with MG&F - this I don't have but could probably get tomorrow. How about treating just the koi side of the pond with pp. Then go for MG&F on the whole pond? Anyone know the effect on wildlife?

    Its dark out side so I wont treat until tomorrow anyway but is there any benefit in treating just the sickest fish with a PP dip tonight - he has got to the stage of occasionally floating on his side but swimming away when I approach so it may all be too late for him . The pond is at 10 Deg C and with the heat pump I can hold it there.


    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

  2. #2
    I think id risk it with the p.p dip for the one whos floating on his side sometimes, I had the same happen to me once, saw one doing the same, decided to treat tomorrow, but fish was already dead when I got home from work.
    Interestingly none of the others where showing symptoms, and all were ok after p.p.
    sounds like you might struggle with p.p with the organic load but i reckon id be doing it anyway and just topping up as required to get the 4 hours of purple time.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Thanks for that - do you know the g/ltr of PP for a dip or should I try a salt dip of say 10g/ltr - I read somewhare that salt knocked costia back?
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Pip,

    Have a read of this for dosages although he doesn't specifically say for dips. I'd have thought you can't go wrong using the same dosage in a holding tank, but don't take that as surefire advice.

    Costia Ichtyobodo

    I don't think Salt is that good with Costia, some strains are totally immune, and it does affect marine fish also. Personally I'd probably prefer to try FMG, only because I'm familiar with it and know its safe, even though you'll get much faster results from PP.

    I do have a question for you, when was the last Koi you added, and where from? You can PM me the answer if you don't want to say publicly. I only ask as I recently posted about symptoms on a Koi I recently bought, but haven't yet scraped what with the Koi being stressed during the pond extension.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 02-03-2019 at 09:05 PM.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    I picked up a couple from Jocallan but they are both fine. The ones with problems are all ones I have had for years.

    I have the one worst off in PP at the moment in a treatment tank with air I will pop him back in the pond after 3 hrs but I'm afraid I don't hold out much hope
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Wish you the best of luck with it Pip. I've read of Koi making extremely fast recoveries after treating with PP, I guess if you can keep the stress down to a minimum, the rest is down to the Koi's fighting spirit.

    You guessed why I asked which Koi Pip. One of mine from Jocallan has red fins and visible veins and a white waxy coating in places. Doesn't feel like its producing excess mucus, but I did see a red flag when I read that Costia can cause a white milky mucus coating. To be honest this Koi seems to have improved a little on its own so just keeping an eye for now.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Well I have popped him back in the pond - I would be supprised if he makes it through the night though - there was very little movement from him.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Still haven't quite decided if I should use PP or go and purchase some MG&F. There is a lot of "stuff" in the anoxic pond - masses of plants - planted margins/bog garden and dozens of frogs! Would MG&F be a gentler option and less sensitive to bio load??
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Simon Fish's Avatar
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    I have had pp in my filter pond the newts didn't seem to mind.
    Can you not bypass the anoxic pond and just dose the main pond for the 4 hours?

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    I can bypass the anoxic but there are goldfish in there so they probably need dosing to if I want to clear the problem. Or is Costia like flukes - endemic in ponds?
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    hope you sort it pip mate. when doing dips. i have put in 10ml for 4 gallon. for 20 minute dip. for such as ulcers. not costia. with plenty of air. fingers crossed for you on the poorly fish
    hope it pulls through. just been reading this mate. don t know if it will help Potassium Permanganate (PP)
    I am with family man David. on this. we all love animals mate. But my opinion is my Koi come first. good luck with it mate. MG \ F is a longish treatment. and I think its 10 days or some thing like that before you can retreat the pond
    could nt that be to late with costia. good luck with it pip. all the best mate

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  20. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pip895 View Post
    I can bypass the anoxic but there are goldfish in there so they probably need dosing to if I want to clear the problem. Or is Costia like flukes - endemic in ponds?
    I would dose the lot mate. just my opinion. it may be in there as well.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear this Pip,I have Duncans book here and he said Mg&f first and 1 treatment needed as no eggs produced,pp second.
    I am sure you know I am no expert on these subjects but if you want dosage etc.
    John

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Sorry to hear this Pip,I have Duncans book here and he said Mg&f first and 1 treatment needed as no eggs produced,pp second.
    I am sure you know I am no expert on these subjects but if you want dosage etc.
    Agree john just read that in my dungan book.
    Mg &f it states first. Then pp.
    Nice one.

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

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  26. #15
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai TinyTony's Avatar
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    fmg every time for costia

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    I really like the quick fix nature of the PP - I can always treat with FMG later if I have to knowing there will be no trace of PP left. The remaining affected fish are sulking but not too bad.

    Anyway I have made a decision - I have been struggling getting the filters working well - cant seem to shift the last trace of ammonia - so Im a bit reluctant to do anything to knock them back further. Then there is the wildlife in the anoxic pond its the worst possible time of year... I know the koi come first but I do care about the other pond life too and there is so much pond weed and stuff in there I think its unlikely that I could keep the dosage up high enough without pouring in huge amounts of PP and that concerns me in itself.


    I am going to reduce the water level and isolate the koi side of the pond, Shift the drum to run off the anoxic pond only and turn all the pumps to minimum +add extra air to the koi side. It will take a while to do that but then I will treat at ~1.8g/1000ltr - I have 28,000ltr in the koi pond so that would be 50g of PP - but I will hold back ~15% of that to top up with as the colour fades and to take account of the reduced level - does that sound about right - some say 1.5g/1000ltr some say 2g/1000ltr? I don't have peroxide but I've got ST crystals which I will make up into solution (20g should do it I think or should it be more?)

    Very nervous about this!
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Did he make it through the night Pip?

    How's the rest of them looking today?

    How are the 2 ponds connected, is it tank connectors? If so, could you not put an elbow into the tank connector pointing upwards to save lowering water level?
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 03-03-2019 at 11:14 AM.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Respect your decision Pip and I hope it works well for you.
    How are you eventually going to treat the anoxic side as costia will be in there,or are you not up to there yet?
    John

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    The internet is a tough place to obtain information because you never know what's true.

    I've read that Costia, in the free swimming stage, will clear out pond stocks and then hang around waiting for new stock, and I've also read it can't survive more than an hour without a host (some tadpoles are also hosts), which is confirmed in this study: (Obviously I'm thinking about your anoxic section when reading this).

    https://w2.uib.no/filearchive/phs-th...ar-isaksen.pdf


    This site has interesting information on it about all diseases inc. Costia. I don't know who's site it is, but I used to refer to it many years ago and didn't know till now its still online.

    Costia information from the Fish Helpline
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 03-03-2019 at 11:46 AM.

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  36. #20
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai TinyTony's Avatar
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    personally ive never shifted costia with pp , i also think theorganic load in your pond will make the pp turn brown very quickly

    good luck with the treatment and have plenty of air

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