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14-08-2018, 11:52 AM #1
internal injury or tumor - antibiotics?
I have a large harawake that was big with what I thought was eggs 3-4 weeks ago. She's now thinner and I noticed she had a red anus. I looked for worms but did not see any. I considered egg impaction and Ive ordered ovaprim but on a closer inspection today she looks to have either an injury , an infection, or tumours. I think an antibiotic injection could help rather than just put her down, what do you think? I can't get advice locally from vets even the keighley vet mentioned on the koi forum will only do phone consultations as not based in keighley (I live in Leeds west yorkshire). Where can I get an antibiotic from and do I inject intravenously? I think shes stopped eating now, not much time. Thank you.
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john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
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14-08-2018, 12:20 PM #2
Hi,looks nasty cant help you but maybe on here Duncan could help
Simply Koi and More Koi ? Index page
He is an expert.John
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20-08-2018, 11:27 AM #3
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How is this going? I lost my favourite koi to this or similar recently.
Why can't you get antibiotics from a local vet? Take them a video of the koi. They might insist on seeing her though.
I think i saw a slight improvement with amoxycillin but cant be sure. Baytril did not touch it. It may not be the same thing however. Although the symptoms are identical....
Swelling....Appears Egg Bound.
Swelling gone overnight.
Few days later the ulcers start.
One on each side.
Spreading underneath.
Awful mate. I hope it isn't what mine had.
All the best.
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26-08-2018, 08:56 PM #4
Thank you so much for your reply. Sorry I haven't replied earlier. I didn't expect anyone else to reply as some days had gone by, so did not check.
I am giving a long response in case it may help other fish keepers. Yes she was bloated with what I thought was eggs, late in season. I was about to inject some ovaprin to help her but then the roundness went, but I noticed her vent looked red. On closer inspection a few days later I saw what the photo shows and went into emergency mode. I spent 2-3 days trying to find a vet that looks at fish. I did manage to find a vet locally willing to look at the fish, but it took 2 days for a suitable vet to be available. It was an exotic vet in north leeds, west yorkshire. Its actually my vet of choice not the nearest but I've had other exotic animals and they are the most caring and experienced I know. I've been to many in west leeds with some disastrous results. She insisted on me bringing her (my koi), in. Not having this dilemma before I had to get bags and a container. Luckily I always have oxygen and as she is a large koi 22cm, I felt she needed it. The nurses admitted they didnt have a clue about fish but let me top up the oxygen. I explained I cant leave her as they didn't have a quarantine tank and she couldnt stay in the bag, nightmare. The vet came from their other clinic which took time but the fish could rest a bit after the car journey. I was offered 2 antibacterial injections, one I'd never heard of and can't remember now, and Baytril that I asked for, working on the assumption it was gram negative bacteria. It was a course of 3. I didnt want to bag the fish again so persuaded the vet to let me carry out the injections on the following days at home. I'd do anything to not have to bag the fish and travel in the car again. The koi perked up when I got her home and nibbled a bit and she was swimming during the night with other fish, but sadly she declined after that and another injection 2 days later (larger doses, so not daily) didn't help. She passed away shortly after. If I had known a vet days earlier when I first noticed something was wrong, that does visits or accepts a video, rather than moving the fish, she may have survived but the infection had taken hold by the time I found someone. If anyone knows of a vet that will give prescriptions by these means please let me and others know. On the website it gives keighley as my nearest vet willing to treat fish, they are zoo vets, but they are not based there, more Manchester based. Thank you for listening and your reply, I am sorry it happened to you as well, but the other fish who saw her decline (mine tried to comfort the koi by gently nuzzling her) are sad and need us to be happy so we have to carry on )
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26-08-2018, 09:17 PM #5
Sorry to hear this. It’s never nice to lose one. I’ve not been on for a few days as been at the north England Koi show.
Unfortunately vets either require you to take the fish in or charge a fortune for call out fees.
IMO I think the fish was already too far gone to be saved in those pictures. There are strong signs of sepsis, the swelling would be due to infection and organ failure.
I had one that had a tumour which was pushed out after spawning. I did an autopsy and found the tumour wrapped around multiple organs and a significant amount of puss in the ovary.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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26-08-2018, 09:54 PM #6
Sorry to hear of your loss
I have a koi which had a really bad infection.
After speaking to Shaun Slevin he advised me to give it a salt bath
25 ounces of salt to 45 litres of water for 30 minutes and to repeat this every other day.
After the 3rd bath the koi looks much better
The koi now seems fine and just started eating again5000 Gallon Fibreglassed Pond With 54" x 27" Infinity Window
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Andre Asagi, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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27-08-2018, 07:53 PM #7
Thank you for your reply. I may try that on another koi if this happens again. At least I would be doing something positive whilst trying to get a vet. I did give her an acriflavin dip bath once, but wasn't sure if it was safe to do it again?
Last edited by hopeful; 27-08-2018 at 07:57 PM.
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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29-08-2018, 08:08 AM #8
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Andy - How bad do you call really bad? What is that salinity-wise? Or is it way off the scale?
I raised my pond to 0.8% but only briefly. I had it around 0.6% for a good 5 days or so though.
Hopeful - Do you have othet pets? It helps if you already have a rapport with the vet in question.
I don't want you thinking it's easier than it is to get antibiotics. You can't just go in and ask for "a pint of baytril please".
On both of the occasions that i have obtained anti-biotics from the vet, the vet:
A) Knows me already because i take Ellie (the dog) there
B) Has seen video of the koi
C) Has been given an accurate weight of the koi
D) Has been contacted by Lincolnshire Fish Health on my behalf either shortly before or after my request
E) Wrongly doesn't consider me to be an idiot.
I think D is the key factor.
It's also important not to think
Infection + Access To Antibiotic/s = Problem Solved
You may need to have a culture and sensitivity test done if a broad spectrum antibiotic (eg baytril) fails to work. Or, if your koi has the time and you have the patience, go directly to the C&S test.
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31-08-2018, 01:46 PM #9
In the past I've had bad experiences with salt, so I've never used salt since. But as I know the dangers now (too long, too strong)maybe I will try in the future, with extra care and proper advice from this website, and, Yes, I have taken cats, rabbits and my hedgehog to this vet, but it was a different vet at this surgery that saw me. That said, a good word from the usual vet that does know me and the fact this fish vet has seen me now would help. You mention Lincolnshire fish health and c and s tests. I will look into this and give them a ring. Thank you. You've opened more doors and more options. I am grateful for your time and advice.
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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02-09-2018, 06:59 AM #105000 Gallon Fibreglassed Pond With 54" x 27" Infinity Window
BD300 Drum Filter
Artesian 0.5hp - Aquadyne 4.4c Beadfilter - PS4 Protein Shower
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Hi Blo 60 - Medo 45 - Spindrifter Bottom Drain
Wide Mouthed Skimmer
The Daily pond temp thread
Still at around 17C, know what you mean about getting the covers off though :D it will be really...