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  1. #1

    A definitive parasite/treatment thread

    if we already have one of these then feel free to remove this, with spring coming if were gona have any parasite problems then nows the time to know what to treat with, i get confused with all the different treatments and how to administer the treatments so ive got a list of parasites (if ive left any off then please let me know and ill edit my post to suit.) for those who seem to know the most about this stuff (dave, al and a few more) feel free to give ya advice and ill edit.

    Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (white spot)
    Treatment -
    How to administer -



    Ichthyobodo necator (Costia)
    Treatment -
    How to administer -



    Chilodonella cyprini
    Treatment -
    How to administer -



    Trichodina
    Treatment -
    How to administer -



    Gyrodactylus (skin fluke)
    Treatment -
    How to administer -




    Dactylogyrus (gill fluke)
    Treatment -
    How to administer -



    Argulus (fish louse)
    Treatment -
    How to administer -




    Lernea (Anchor Worm (i know its rare but its still possible) )
    Treatment -
    How to administer -



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  3. #2
    This is a great idea, maybe davej and some of the more experience guys on here can help fill in the blank spaces with the right info.

    mark

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  5. #3
    whiskey1944
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  7. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion go54nke's Avatar
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    First of all, ALL medictions to a pond need checking twice before you treat, extra air during the course of the treatment is a MUST.
    DON'T chuck meds in and walk away, add slowly over 10 mins or so, only treat when you have the time to watch over them unless your confident in what your doing and you know your Koi.
    The recomendation is to only treat above 13°c but if needs must you need to make a judgement call.

    w/s - Malachite green (10ml to 176g) mixed with Formalin (10ml to 150g) mix your own as some of the pre-mix options are weak.
    Above 13°c+ treat 3 times on day 1,7 & 13 doing a 15% water change between each dose.
    At 18°c+ treat 3 times on day 1,6 & 11 again with a 15% water change between doses.

    costia - either PP or MG&F using the same protocol for w/s but with only 2 doses. If using PP then 1.5 grams per ton for 4 hrs is the recomendation, costia can be a pain to shift sometimes so a follow up dose of PP may be needed or even a higher dose rate which I won't go into.

    Chilodonella - treat as per costia using MG&F dose rates, 2 doses only.

    Trichodina - One dose of PP at 1.5 grams per ton for 4 hours.

    Flukes - Both require the same treatment, Fluke M, Fluke solve or similar, a follow up may be nessesary if you have gill flukes as these are egg layers.
    Mix with acetone for best results 10ml of acetone to 1000 gallons of water.

    Argulus & Lernea - keeping it legal, colombo morenicol lernex should see both of these critters off, don't hold me to that as I have not used it.

    There is a little more info here Faz http://www.extremekoi.co.uk/koi-heal...reatments.html

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  9. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Top of my head what I would add? the following, more of an anti cock up list - I'm sure there are more.

    • Identification of the enemy through scrapes is essential.
    • Give yourself time to be able to observe the fish for several hours after a treatment has been added.
    • Add Air, Air and more Air
    • Wear suitable protective clothing, do not take an inquisitive sniff of any chemicals you are using.
    • A 5p piece weighs 3.25g, 10p weighs 6.5g - Check your scales each time you use them at a weight similar to that you will be using.
    • Knowing the precise size of your pond is essential, do not guess. An under dose may not be effective, an overdose may kill the fish.
    • Write down the measurements for your pond for each treatment in a book and double check each time you use them do not rely on memory.
    • If you have Sturgeon, Orfe / Goldfish etc then check that any treatment is suitable for them.
    • Store chemicals out of reach and at suitable temps.
    • Make sure that formaldahyde (formalin) is clear from any precipitate.
    • Don’t be tempted to mix treatments, that includes Blanket weed treatments .
    • For M&F treatments switch off UV, O3 etc.
    • For other treatments turn off any 03.
    • Avoid feeding for 24 hours before adding PP or Formalin.


    Dave

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  11. #6
    cheers guys, ill update my post when i get a min

    ta

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  13. #7
    Hi could someone answer me some why's please

    Why ....
    1.Do we need to add more air when treating
    2. Cant I use the formalin if it has precipitate & i'm assuming that's sediment? The bottle I have is 4 years old and looks like it has sediment in the bottom.
    3. Can't we treat for blanket weed at the same time, I've just add some barley straw extract to try and control the weed while the uv is off, its not working well!
    4. Whats 03?
    5. Why a 15% water change between treatment?

    Thanks
    Steve

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  15. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkysteve View Post
    Hi could someone answer me some why's please

    Why ....
    1.Do we need to add more air when treating
    2. Cant I use the formalin if it has precipitate & i'm assuming that's sediment? The bottle I have is 4 years old and looks like it has sediment in the bottom.
    3. Can't we treat for blanket weed at the same time, I've just add some barley straw extract to try and control the weed while the uv is off, its not working well!
    4. Whats 03?
    5. Why a 15% water change between treatment?

    Thanks
    Steve
    I'll have a stab at answering those questions.
    1. The majority of treatments bind O2, therefore you add more air to ensure that their is enough O2 for the koi to be comfortable doing treatments.

    2. Using old, out of date or soiled medicines may not only be ineffective but they could do more harm than good. The sediment is a result if the liquid turning back to crystal form. When we add medication to a pond we gradually add it to ensure the pond water dilutes it sufficiently. We would not add all the medication to one spot all at once as this would be too strong and overpower the koi. if this sediment i.e raw crystals would be digested by the koi it would pretty much kill it. it would be digested in a totally undiluted form and therefore be lethal. Formalin is a chemical that strips the mucus from a koi. If it can do that in a small quantity in a highly diluted environment imagine what a small raw crystal would do I the internals of a koi or it's gills.

    3. It's always best practice to use medications separately unless of course a combination has been tried and tested with no negative impact (I.e formalin and malachite green). The manufacturers of chemicals, be it medication or algae treatment have not tested their product in conjunction with any other product or medication, therefore they can not guarantee there will be no negative results.

    4. O3 is ozone. It has 3 oxygen Atoms rather than 2. Hense the name o2.

    5. Although medication wears off eventually we want to be sure that the pond is back to almost it's Nuteral level before retreating. Therefore a 15% water change after the duration of the specified treatment will ensure that we are not adding medication to an already medicated pond, which will in turn lead us to overdosing on the medication.

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  17. #9
    Well done on the answers there
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  19. #10
    Thanks very much, lads,. Those posts are very helpful x

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  21. #11
    Thanks Stu its nice to get the theory behind the actions.

    Does anyone know how long a Formalin and Malachite green stays active in the water? 3 weeks ago I used some old formalin & MG twice at a 1 week interval, without knowing the danger of the formalin turning into paraformaldehyde, I've since done 2 x 50% water changes this week to get rid of any potential toxins, but I've got a feeling the treatment didn't work anyway, maybe because of the age of the meds and I might need to retreat when I get some fresh meds. Is there a minimum time needed for recuperation before treating again?
    Thanks
    Steve

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  23. #12
    Have you rescaped to ensure the treatment didn't work?

    You probably have nuteral water now but I would not retreat until you know you still have parasites. Treatment is stressful to the koi which in turn lowers the immune system. If you still find parasites on the koi then you will need to retreat.

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  25. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkysteve View Post
    Does anyone know how long a Formalin and Malachite green stays active in the water?
    Just noticed that the question has not been answered.

    I believe that Formalin is active for only 12-24 hours after you add. Formalin binds oxygen at a ratio of 5/1 so it's essential extra air is added. Also you should not use formalin if you suspect gill damage / disease.

    MG is active for a longer but it is deactivated by sunlight & of course UV.
    So if you needed to deactivate the Malachite then you could simple turn your UV back on and start water changes again.

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  27. #14

    MG&F Advise

    Quote Originally Posted by go54nke View Post
    First of all, ALL medictions to a pond need checking twice before you treat, extra air during the course of the treatment is a MUST.
    DON'T chuck meds in and walk away, add slowly over 10 mins or so, only treat when you have the time to watch over them unless your confident in what your doing and you know your Koi.
    The recomendation is to only treat above 13°c but if needs must you need to make a judgement call.

    w/s - Malachite green (10ml to 176g) mixed with Formalin (10ml to 150g) mix your own as some of the pre-mix options are weak.
    Above 13°c+ treat 3 times on day 1,7 & 13 doing a 15% water change between each dose.
    At 18°c+ treat 3 times on day 1,6 & 11 again with a 15% water change between doses.

    There is a little more info here Faz Parasites and treatments. - Koi Forum Website
    Hi All
    Ive been treating for Trich and whitespot, which I found on a couple of scrapes, with the above MG&F protocols, the pond is at 18 / 19 degress so im treating at 1,6 & 11 days, I lost one young doitsu on day 5 for no obvious reason, although he was not right before I started (not eating and very insular )
    There was nothing visually wrong with him and I did a scrape which just showed up some dead trich.
    I've triple checked my med quantity's and there good apart from the formalin which was 35% concentration and not 30% which I think the above advise was based on.
    Most of the other fish are acting normally but one of the older (9years)showa's has gone a little quiet, she's still eating but no where near as active as everyone else.
    I'm getting the feeling its quite an aggressive treatment, my question is do I do the last day 11 treatment regardless, hope everyone makes it, or do I scrape again and if everything's clear skip the last treatment.

    If I skip the last one will it all have been a waste of time ie is there an egg/reproduction cycle like with flukes ?

    If I do the last day 11 treatment when will it of done its thing and I can get some big water changes done?

    Does MG&F linger indefinitely like salt or does it get spent like PP?

    Thanks for any advice I wouldn't be able to do this without all this good info you guys give out.
    Steve

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  29. #15
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkysteve View Post
    Hi All
    Ive been treating for Trich and whitespot, which I found on a couple of scrapes, with the above MG&F protocols, the pond is at 18 / 19 degress so im treating at 1,6 & 11 days, I lost one young doitsu on day 5 for no obvious reason, although he was not right before I started (not eating and very insular )
    There was nothing visually wrong with him and I did a scrape which just showed up some dead trich.
    I've triple checked my med quantity's and there good apart from the formalin which was 35% concentration and not 30% which I think the above advise was based on.
    Most of the other fish are acting normally but one of the older (9years)showa's has gone a little quiet, she's still eating but no where near as active as everyone else.
    I'm getting the feeling its quite an aggressive treatment, my question is do I do the last day 11 treatment regardless, hope everyone makes it, or do I scrape again and if everything's clear skip the last treatment.

    If I skip the last one will it all have been a waste of time ie is there an egg/reproduction cycle like with flukes ?

    If I do the last day 11 treatment when will it of done its thing and I can get some big water changes done?

    Does MG&F linger indefinitely like salt or does it get spent like PP?

    Thanks for any advice I wouldn't be able to do this without all this good info you guys give out.
    Steve
    Hiya

    Formalin 30 or 35% makes no odds at standard dose 10ml to 150 gallons .

    Yep there is a lifecycle hence the 3 treatments - follow through the three treatments for Ich. Tric is a mere inconvenience compared with Ich, you want belt and braces for Ich.

    Yep M&F is very aggressive, the more air you can add whilst the formalin is active the better.

    The formalin will be gone in 18 hours after treatment, malachite sticks around for 4-5 days in the water, UV will degrade it.

    Change water 3-4 days after each treatment.

    Dave

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  31. #16
    Brilliant thanks Dave

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  33. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion voodoo_15_uk's Avatar
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    With PP, you need to keep the water purple for 4 hrs at least..... So if it goes brown within the hour how do you top it up? Do you just add another lot of the same amount?

    I just PP the QT and it went brown within 2 hours, I have no UV on it so water is very green

  34. #18
    You have a half dose waiting to top up. Add gradually. And make a quarter dose just in case. Be very careful. Have dechlor or H p in case something goes wrong.

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  35. #19
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Hiya

    What you don’t want is to have a PP dose in the water that is damaging the fish, ideally its best to use a properly calibrated ORP meter and use this to keep the active PP so that the ORP is within safe short term levels.

    But not everyone has an ORP meter and they can be fickle things to keep calibrated.

    There are two ways to deal with this;

    If the water goes brown well before the 4 hour mark you can top up with a smaller dose of PP to get the pink back into the water, maybe 1/3rd .or ½ of the starting dose. Now much depends on how long the initial dose has taken to burn off, if its less than 1 1/2hours I would maybe go ½ dose more than 2 hours 1/3rd..

    If this burns off and the water goes brown then another much smaller dose etc.

    After 4 hours if the water is still pink add some dechlor or HP to turn it brown

    Its not ideal, it does become a judgement call on the dosing.

    The alternate is to simply leave things brown after the standard dose (don’t add HP or dechlor to clean things up) rescrape after 48 hours and then retreat if needed at standard dose after 72 hours, you will find this dose lasts a lot longer than the first and hopefully a good 3 hours. The reason for not using HP or dechlor is that any that is still in the pond will knock back the PP..

    WHATEVER always best not to feed the fish for 24 hours prior to adding PP and essential to add extra air and to have enough light to be able to monitor the treatment and the fish.

    Dave

  36. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion voodoo_15_uk's Avatar
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    I got a treatment that works for Fish Lice. its lice solve by vet ark, its pricey too but done the job. can be used as a bath too and available online in 10g or 100g pouches.

 

 
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