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  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion go54nke's Avatar
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    Parasites and treatments.

    Just thought I would post my prefered treatments and protocols when it comes to dealing with parasites and treatments in the hope that others will benefit, save some money on treatments and save stress on the Koi.

    These are MY protocols, some will not be as the Koi health books says, the reason for this is that I am convinced that certain parasites have developed a resistance against certain chemicals, all these are tried and tested. There was a time when MG&F was advised as the "fixes all" treatment and still is today, I have found this to be not much use these days.

    OK....

    MG&F (malachite green mixed with Formalin) has one use for me, and thats for whitespot. I may use it on chilodonella if PP doesn't work first. I have found premixed versions no use whatsoever, I always mix my own, Malachite crystals and fresh formalin. Always check the formalin before use, if it looks cloudy or has crystals in the bottom, bin it. Add extra air when treating.

    KMnO4 (PP-potassium permanganate) this I would use for...
    chilodonella although it may not completely shift it first go, my opinion is I would rather subject my Koi to a 4 hour PP session than several hits of MG&F.
    costia, this may require a follow up treatment 3 days after the initial one, I dose this at 2g per tonne, and this is done and recommended by serveral well known Koi people, I know some will look down on this and comment about organic loads, gill damage etc, but... I have spoken to several of the best in the Koi game about this and this is what is needed to shift a stubborn case of costia. I have tried 1.5g per tonne in the past only to find it has not completely done the job although Trichodina is no problem at this dose rate. It may well work for some, so all I am saying is you may need to up the dose if the standard dose doesn't do the job.
    Always have a bottle of dechlorinator or HP (hydrogen peroxide) on standby, you can stop the PP reaction with either of these, this is why I prefer PP, although it is a powerful oxidiser, the reaction can be stopped unlike MG&F. Add extra air when treating.

    Flubenol/flukeM/telmin etc... any of these will sort the flukes out, gill flukes may require a follow up treament due to the difference in skin/gill fluke life cycles, 1 hit, no filter damage, my Koi eat the same day as I put the stuff in, I use Flubenol. Always mix with acetone until you get a paste like substance, then mix again with pond water. 10ml of acetone to 1000g of water, Flubenol 5% is 1 gram to 89 gallons.

    Before carrying out any of the above, and assuming all water parameters are fine, a skin scrape is a must first, identify the problem and treat accordingly.

    Any treatments used must only be used above 55f/13c although if your sat at 10c with an parasite problem you may have to bite the bullet and make a judgement call, always add extra air when treatments are applied.

    There is another useful treatment, CT (chloramine T) very good for bacterial infections if your a little late spotting a parasite problem.

    As said, this is MY way of doing things, and this is what works for ME, I am quite comfortable with the way I treat my Koi, I have never lost a Koi to anything other than dropsy, egg impactation, a battering after a spawning session which was unavoidable at the time due to me not being around when they decided to go at it, and old age.
    I would like to think I have learned from the best in the business, people I trust and people who I could pick up the phone and talk to anytime of the day or night.



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion Doghouse Riley's Avatar
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    Thanks for that, I've copied and pasted it into my Word file of "useful information."
    "The information's out there,
    You only have to let it in." (Jesse Stone)

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  4. #3
    Thanks for posting,

    I totally agree with you on the treatments you've stated for the parrasites stated. I've had most of them (Bar costia) and have done all of the above. The biggest issue is knowing the problem.

    Like you said, a microscope inspection is a must.

    All the shops at the moment are having a field day handing out FMG like its the bee all and end all cure for anything, when in all honesty they don't have a clue what the problem is in the pond. Really sad.

    Hopefully more people will come and learn from sites like this and others. You should never be ashamed to ask, always better than to end up with very sick fish

    Good job

    Dawn

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  6. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion go54nke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doghouse Riley View Post
    Thanks for that, I've copied and pasted it into my Word file of "useful information."
    DHR, Dawn, your welcome, I have just edited the acetone amount as I had my dose rate down for my pond.

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  8. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai wellsi's Avatar
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    Dave, can we make this a sticky in this folder? It's spring and many of us will be looking for this info about now.... myself included

    Ian

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  10. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Hiya

    Yes its a great thread, thanks Al, and it will be stickied, first off though if there is any debate to be had - lets have it ...

    Dave

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  12. #7
    OK guys i will start,

    How do we know when to treat ?

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  14. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai wellsi's Avatar
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    Firstly, apologies Al, I fogot to thank you for this useful and detailed post when asking for it to be made a sticky...

    Gaz, well, hopefully most people get to know their fish's habits; when a couple are sulking on the bottom and not eating, you can generally bet something's wrong. Also, when they come to nibble at your food, be checking their fins and bodies for any marks or ulcers in the making....

    For those still apprehensive about scraping, can i just recommend a floating inspection net; makes all the difference and takes all the stress out of doing a scrape (both for you and the fish!). Those plastic white plant pot labels you stick in the soil make great scraping tools...

    And for those like me with open ponds where ducks and birds can easily land, then late April and May is the prime time to be watching the fish for sulking behaviour as our feathered friends bring all sorts of fun into the pond...

    Cheers again Al

    Ian

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  16. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion go54nke's Avatar
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    Thanks guys, I agree with Ian, you should be able to read your Koi's behavour over time, this will let you know when something isn't quite right.

    There are many tell tale signs, off their food, not as active as usual, sulking, flashing, jumping, hanging at the surface, sat on the bottom, hanging in the water flow or at an airation point, all these are signs that something isn't 100%.

    There will also be the times when you know something is wrong and despite scrapping you just can't pinpoint the problem, at this time I sit back, watch and wait, something usually shows up on later scrapes.

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  18. #10
    Nice post Al and a good read thanks for the info

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  20. #11
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai wellsi's Avatar
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    Dave, can we stick this up near the top please?

    Ian

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  22. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by wellsi View Post
    Dave, can we stick this up near the top please?

    Ian
    done.........

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  24. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai Craig's Avatar
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    First aid kit

    What would be in your opinion, a complete first aid kit needed at home to cover 90% of infections, injury's etc. Im guessing some medicines have short shelf life but what would you have on hand? As i have mentioned earlier I live in Sweden so its not just a case of popping down the local Koi supplier and getting the medicine I need.
    Its Christmas soon so my parents will be coming over so what a wonderful opportunity for them to "surprise" me with a top of the range koi first aid kit, (after all my mom owns one of my koi)
    Thanks Craig

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  26. #14

  27. #15
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai Craig's Avatar
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    Thanks for the list, a couple of questions, Flubonel and Acetone cant seem to find them, is Kusuri Fluke M the same?
    I have a 40,000 litre pond about 9000 gals in ye old English talk, what would you recommend I keep in quantity? Im thinking for most injuries I would remove the fish and have them in my 600l quarantine tank, but flukes etc I would need to treat the whole pond.
    What do I use for disinfecting nets etc? is it PP?
    And finally, do I need a doctors white coat when I use this kit and stethoscope and that lamp / mirror thingy on my head? If so Ill need a nurse! Last year we had a job in Belguim so we drove down and driving through Germany we saw a 24 hour sex shop so obviously we stopped and I brought Maria what I thought all girls wanted:- "a PVC nurses outfit!" Strangely she hasn't worn it yet but im guessing shes waiting for the right moment. THIS COULD BE IT!!!!!!!!!

  28. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion go54nke's Avatar
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    Hi Craig,

    Flubenol is a wormer for pigs, if you have a decent vet then you may be able to get hold of it, if not the FlukeM would be my next choice.
    Both will dissolve in boiling water to a certain extent, it's no ideal though, the acetone dissolves them with ease. Any chemist should have it, it's used for soaking false nails off....so I've heard

    Chemical wise I would have in stock, PP, CT dechlorinater, malachite crystals if you can source them. I only buy formalin if I need it as I know it will be fresh. All are available in tub amounts so you will be limited as to what you can keep in.
    PP is 6.8g per 1000gallons, CT varies in dose rate depending on what you are using it for, I mix my own dechlorinater from sodium thiosulphate crystals, 50g makes me 0.5litres.

    For disinfecting nets either a strong solution of PP or CT will do the job.

    If you get yourself a white coat then you may get lucky with the PVC outfit

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  30. #17
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai Craig's Avatar
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    Nice one! Thanks,

  31. #18
    How do we use Chloramine T?.

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  33. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion voodoo_15_uk's Avatar
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    hi folks.

    what is the treatment to kill off FISH LICE? i have heard effective chemicals have been made illegal - organophosphates.

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  35. #20
    Hi Laura,
    I have heard that Lice-Solve is very effective against fish lice and gill maggot.


    Lice Solve, previously known as Mectinsol is a specially developed unique formulation containing emamectin for the treatment of external parasites such as Argulus (fish lice) and Ergasilus (gill maggot) in ornamental fish including koi. Clear these parasites from your koi with one single immersion treatment in the pond or tank.

    Emamectin was originally developed for the control of sea lice in farmed salmonids by oral administration and its easy-to-use formulation means that fish can be treated by immersion in the product – avoiding the need for the problems associated with oral administration of medicines to ornamental fish. It can be used directly into the pond or tank where the fish are kept, or fish can be moved into a separate treatment tank for the treatment period. Make sure that the water is well oxygenated during treatment.

    Sufficient product should be used to ensure that you use 4 grams of Lice Solve per 1000 litres of pond or tank water. 10g - which is sufficient for 2500 litres (550 gallons)

    Caution – do not use in the presence of Orfe.

    It is sold under the Small Animal Exemption Scheme.

    Ochiba.

 

 
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