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Thread: White spot

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    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai smartin's Avatar
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    White spot

    good evening, well not so good,

    two of my fish and one in particluar our latest edition has very quickly developed what looks like white spot, quite a heavy covering on his fins, photos enclosed, read a thread from Mark that NT EX5 should help over a five day treatment, looks like this will destroy my filters which are still early stage maturity but unsure what else i can do, salt will have the same effect, no QT available but reading up the fish and the egg cycle needs to be managed, any help views or comments would be welcomed, will need to get somethign tomorrow to treat as it looks quite heavy infestation....... thanksSteve.


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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    good evening, well not so good,

    two of my fish and one in particluar our latest edition has very quickly developed what looks like white spot, quite a heavy covering on his fins, photos enclosed, read a thread from Mark that NT EX5 should help over a five day treatment, looks like this will destroy my filters which are still early stage maturity but unsure what else i can do, salt will have the same effect, no QT available but reading up the fish and the egg cycle needs to be managed, any help views or comments would be welcomed, will need to get somethign tomorrow to treat as it looks quite heavy infestation....... thanksSteve.
    Have you done scrapes on the fish in question and a couple more to make sure.
    Some one wrote on here about white spots
    On fins. Could be something to do with Male breeding. Or even the start of carp pox.
    Anyway I had white spot about 2 months ago. I used this to zap them. But make sure first. As you are maturing new filters.
    Make sure UV is off.
    My filters came back to normal after 4 days. But very mature.
    I followed instructions. Then retreated after first treatment.
    Hope this helps
    Fred


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    Last edited by freddyboy; 03-08-2019 at 07:47 AM.

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Forgot to add Steve. Delicate fish like tench orfs Rudd sturgeon your supposed to take out when using FMG.
    Fred

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    Senior Member Rank = Jussai RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    FMG stains everything it touches, careful where you add it to your pond, I ended up with green fingers and green splashes on my coping stones.

    I treated 3 doses at 7 day intervals, all seems to have cleared up now
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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyLittle0 View Post
    FMG stains everything it touches, careful where you add it to your pond, I ended up with green fingers and green splashes on my coping stones.

    I treated 3 doses at 7 day intervals, all seems to have cleared up now
    Nice one Roy. Yeah mate. I was green fingered for a while

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Hi

    You will normally only see turbercles on the gill plates and pecs.

    It is a bit unusual to see whitespots such as these on a Koi even if it has the parasite, from what I understand the spots come from the parasites being at the stage in their lifecycle where they are just about to erupt.

    I always prefer to confirm by mucus scrapes, main reason for this being you cant be sure if you have eradicated the critter without such.

    Malachite and Formalin is the preferred treatment. Personally my preference is too mix such myself. EX5 is a premix of M&F, I don't know the formulation strength so not in a position to comment on how effective it would be.

    As Freddy said Orfe and Sturgeon don't like M&F but it isn't a definite no go with these in your pond, (unlike when treating with PP), simply a question of having to take the risk.

    UV off, extra air certainly for the first 18 hours whilst the formalin is at work, and my preference is not to feed.

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    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai smartin's Avatar
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    good morning Freddy and Roy,

    thanks for your replies...… I got up early and scraped the fish that seems effected and under the scope it looks classic white spot, I have looked at other clips and videos on here and online and it looks so similar I am convinced it is this and from what I have read at cystic stage, it is covered in it as per the photos, I have one more fish with some signs of it only a few dots yet others look clear ? anyhow hopefully its early stage and a product will eradicate them, cheers guys Steve..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Hi

    You will normally only see turbercles on the gill plates and pecs.

    It is a bit unusual to see whitespots such as these on a Koi even if it has the parasite, from what I understand the spots come from the parasites being at the stage in their lifecycle where they are just about to erupt.

    I always prefer to confirm by mucus scrapes, main reason for this being you cant be sure if you have eradicated the critter without such.

    Malachite and Formalin is the preferred treatment. Personally my preference is too mix such myself. EX5 is a premix of M&F, I don't know the formulation strength so not in a position to comment on how effective it would be.

    As Freddy said Orfe and Sturgeon don't like M&F but it isn't a definite no go with these in your pond, (unlike when treating with PP), simply a question of having to take the risk.

    UV off, extra air certainly for the first 18 hours whilst the formalin is at work, and my preference is not to feed.
    Hi John,
    thanks - I have scraped and confirm it is white spot, unless there is another parasite that looks just like this under the scope? I saw under the scope quite round large globular mass, quite slowly turning, looks just like it compared to other clips online, the only thing else I read up on that it could be is koi lymphocystis due to the symptoms especially the tail and fin spots but cannot find what this looks like under the scope as yet... thanks Steve

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Hi

    You will normally only see turbercles on the gill plates and pecs.

    It is a bit unusual to see whitespots such as these on a Koi even if it has the parasite, from what I understand the spots come from the parasites being at the stage in their lifecycle where they are just about to erupt.

    I always prefer to confirm by mucus scrapes, main reason for this being you cant be sure if you have eradicated the critter without such.

    Malachite and Formalin is the preferred treatment. Personally my preference is too mix such myself. EX5 is a premix of M&F, I don't know the formulation strength so not in a position to comment on how effective it would be.

    As Freddy said Orfe and Sturgeon don't like M&F but it isn't a definite no go with these in your pond, (unlike when treating with PP), simply a question of having to take the risk.

    UV off, extra air certainly for the first 18 hours whilst the formalin is at work, and my preference is not to feed.
    Nice one Dave. Your right on the rudd orfs and tench and sturgeon.
    First time I used fmg I took the delicate fish out. Took me 2 days to catch them .
    This time I left them in the pond while treating. With extra air in the pond. As nightmare to catch at 6 feet deep.
    Thankfully they came through the treatment. Ok. I added treatment very slowly as well. Instead of shocking the delicate ones. Orf Rudd tench.
    And they where all ok.
    Fred

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    good morning Freddy and Roy,

    thanks for your replies...… I got up early and scraped the fish that seems effected and under the scope it looks classic white spot, I have looked at other clips and videos on here and online and it looks so similar I am convinced it is this and from what I have read at cystic stage, it is covered in it as per the photos, I have one more fish with some signs of it only a few dots yet others look clear ? anyhow hopefully its early stage and a product will eradicate them, cheers guys Steve..
    If your 100% sure. Go for it. As Dave quoted lots of air. And the separate. Dose
    Mgf is I believe stronger. Then mgf mix.
    I used this because of orfs Rudd and tench. And it worked.That eradic is nt much good.
    That's just my opinion. I used that and it did nothing.
    My whitespot was a follow on from skin flukes. When my fish where low on immune
    System.
    Did nt you have flukes not so long ago. Could be same.
    Fred



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    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai smartin's Avatar
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    Hi Freddy,

    I had Costia brought in by WOW fish my first 5 ever brought, they were put in to help mature the filters...… so all 5 treated for Costia and was successful however the fish tail pictured in my opening thread was only purchased 2 weeks ago from a very well known outlet so just amazed that its happened again but this time a different parasite, I am not finger pointing here at all I must make that clear however I am beginning to believe that because my pond is not heated I am bringing fish from say 22 degrees into 18 degrees and as read many times the dormant parasite springs into action as the new fish is stressed and the water is colder at 18 degree's, any how all 6 fish are now swimming around in very blue water and fingers crossed my new fish makes it as it is so friendly and it would be a sad loss, UV is turned off and I will repeat the dosage next Saturday to be sure so 2 weeks of blue water, I just hope they don't splash and cover my nice new patio porcelain slabs with FMG and stain them blue else the wife will murder me and I will end up in the pond!! Steve.

    Can you advise please ladies and gents should my trickle in/out be off ? and should I stop feeding or reduce feed ? I just hope this does not knock my filters right back else I will have ammonia back..... Steve.
    Last edited by smartin; 03-08-2019 at 12:12 PM.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Hi Freddy,

    I had Costia brought in by WOW fish my first 5 ever brought, they were put in to help mature the filters...… so all 5 treated for Costia and was successful however the fish tail pictured in my opening thread was only purchased 2 weeks ago from a very well known outlet so just amazed that its happened again but this time a different parasite, I am not finger pointing here at all I must make that clear however I am beginning to believe that because my pond is not heated I am bringing fish from say 22 degrees into 18 degrees and as read many times the dormant parasite springs into action as the new fish is stressed and the water is colder at 18 degree's, any how all 6 fish are now swimming around in very blue water and fingers crossed my new fish makes it as it is so friendly and it would be a sad loss, UV is turned off and I will repeat the dosage next Saturday to be sure so 2 weeks of blue water, I just hope they don't splash and cover my nice new patio porcelain slabs with FMG and stain them blue else the wife will murder me and I will end up in the pond!! Steve.

    Can you advise please ladies and gents should my trickle in/out be off ? and should I stop feeding or reduce feed ? I just hope this does not knock my filters right back else I will have ammonia back..... Steve.

    Turn the trickle in off, you don't want to dilute the medication.

    I don't feed when treating, its a personal choice but my logic is;
    Helps avoid the pollution of feeding:
    fish consume more O2 when digesting food (the formalin will impact on the O2 levels):
    fish may have congested gills (with x/s mucus) and avoiding them getting bits of feed stuck in this helps reduce them flicking and damaging themselves.




    1) why pollute the water,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Turn the trickle in off, you don't want to dilute the medication.

    I don't feed when treating, its a personal choice but my logic is;
    Helps avoid the pollution of feeding:
    fish consume more O2 when digesting food (the formalin will impact on the O2 levels):
    fish may have congested gills (with x/s mucus) and avoiding them getting bits of feed stuck in this helps reduce them flicking and damaging themselves.




    1) why pollute the water,

    thanks Dave,

    will they be ok with no food for two weeks? thanks Steve.

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    Senior Member Rank = Jussai RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    I stopped feeding for two days of each treatment, during those two days the UV was off, after that I turned it back on and started feeding again

    Some people stop feeding over winter for months, so a few weeks they will be fine
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Hi Simon. I turned my trickle in off. UVs off for the full 2 weeks.
    I also bypassed my drum for a couple of days.
    Plus I stopped feeding. As Roy says. You can go for months over winter not feeding
    If you are not heated.
    And Dave has a point on the pollution side of things. Plus the mucus.

    When I used to get new fish I get a bowl and mix the water with pond water in the bag for a few hours. Then add them to the pond.
    I have a qt grow on now. So they always go in there now. For a few weeks.
    Fred

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Completely missed this thread, sounds like you have solid advice now.

    I have always found White spot seems to start on the fins prior to the body, possibly it seems that way because easier to see on the fins. That Koi certainly has a hell of a lot of them so this isn't a sudden outbreak. Don't know how recently you bought that fish, but its had them for at least a week if not 2 or more.


    About breeding Tubercles;

    As Dave said, tubercles on the gill plates and pecs, but they do extend around much of the head and can go a little bit into the body. I have a Hi Utsuri with whole head covered in them, and as you'll have seen from other posts, my fancy goldfish get them on the body beyond the pelvic fins.

    When breeding tubercles extend onto the body they tend to be on the ends of the scales, maybe 3 or 4 on a scale in a curved pattern following the shape of the scale.

    You'll never see breeding tubercles on any fins other than the pectoral fins.


    I've read about someone else buying koi from a very well known Dealer in the South East and they had white spot too.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 04-08-2019 at 08:49 PM.

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    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai smartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Completely missed this thread, sounds like you have solid advice now.

    I have always found White spot seems to start on the fins prior to the body, possibly it seems that way because easier to see on the fins. That Koi certainly has a hell of a lot of them so this isn't a sudden outbreak. Don't know how recently you bought that fish, but its had them for at least a week if not 2 or more.


    About breeding Tubercles;

    As Dave said, tubercles on the gill plates and pecs, but they do extend around much of the head and can go a little bit into the body. I have a Hi Utsuri with whole head covered in them, and as you'll have seen from other posts, my fancy goldfish get them on the body beyond the pelvic fins.

    When breeding tubercles extend onto the body they tend to be on the ends of the scales, maybe 3 or 4 on a scale in a curved pattern following the shape of the scale.

    You'll never see breeding tubercles on any fins other than the pectoral fins.


    I've read about someone else buying koi from a very well known Dealer in the South East and they had white spot too.
    Hi RS - I am doing what I can to treat the fish and my others, I will be really unhappy if I lose any of my fish due to this, I am at a loss of what I can do really, knowing I have my two Japanese koi in the pond which I purchased back in May at the Detling show that could be effected really frustrates me as we waited 10 weeks before we brought them home so that the water had settled a bit...… I specifically purchased from this other place thinking they would be clean fish, I have only had it here two weeks tomorrow!! joke,.

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