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Thread: what do you think
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25-07-2019, 04:48 PM #1
what do you think
Good evening everyone,
our Maratan that we brought home last weekend has developed some fins marks and also has a faint whitish mark on his head, the mark on the head appeared around 4 days ago and tail fin around two days ago, do you think this could be koi pox fromthe stress of the drive home last weekend ? be interested in what you think this is, no other fish showing this at the moment, water perameters are being let down by nitrite which is anything between 0.5 to 1 at its worst, i have performed a 30% water change two days ago and today added a EA pure pond bomb and some Blagdon start up powder direct to the filters as directed in the hope that both products will help the nitrite, if no reduction in the morning i will do another water change..... thanks in advance Steve.
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26-07-2019, 08:29 AM #2
Hi Steve.
it does look like pox to me. but I am only basing that on the fact that I have a couple with it and it looks very similar. Although mine seem to have it more around their mouths than on their fins.
Cheers Craig.
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26-07-2019, 11:07 AM #3
Same as Craig, I also have a couple that had it through winter and it hasn't completely gone on one of them yet.
Nitrite can be a bummer, had it at 2mg/l all summer last year (filter was on its first year), and since changing to a drum there's another spike right now between 1 & 2 (maybe I killed the bugs when draining Nexus).
Personally I'm not afraid to add salt to the pond to help the Koi deal with it if I think there's a risk to their health such as now with high temps causing effects of nitrite to be even more dangerous.
Could be wrong here but my understanding is if you add 1 mg/l salt to a pond with 1 mg/l of nitrite you reduce the nitrite take up in the Koi by 50%.
With 1mg/l nitrite and 10mg/l salt you reduce take up by 90%.
So in 10,000 litres reading 1mg/l nitrite, only 100 grams of salt is required to reduce the effects by up to 90%.
That might need verifying, all I can say is at 2 mg/l nitrite last summer this is the calculation I used for salt and the fish showed no symptoms whatsoever other than slow growth in some Koi.
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27-07-2019, 05:17 AM #4Now you should understand that nitrite can last for long periods in the pond, so the fish must be protected from it. Again, you need to be testing the water to know the nitrite is there. You can easily protect the fish from nitrite by adding salt ( sodium chloride) to the water. However, you want to keep the bare minimum salinity to accomplish this, because salinity can actually inhibit the bacteria from colonizing in a timely manner.The salinity required to protect fish from nitrite is .002% salt (point zero zero two percent salinity) for every 1 ppm nitrite in the water, or a ratio of 20 to one salt to nitrite. As an example, if you test the water and there is 1ppm nitrite, you need to add enough salt to achieve a .002% salinity. If you read 2 ppm nitrite, then you need to have a .004% salinity and so on and so forth. You will need a salt meter to be able to read the salinity accurately and these meters are available in our online store. If you have a Koi pond then you need a salt meter. Now different salt meters read in different values. Some read in percent salinity, some read in ppm (parts per million ) salinity, and some read in ppt (parts per thousand salinity. We have a salinity calculator in the Koi Treatments section of this website to help you calculate these. Below however you can see what .002% is in these other values and you need this amount to protect the fish for EVERY 1 ppm nitrite;.002% = 20 ppm (20 parts per million).002% =.02 ppt (point zero two parts per thousand)
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27-07-2019, 01:21 PM #5
Helpful post trapper, thank you.
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27-07-2019, 01:38 PM #6
Can’t see it being pox, especially in this weather, I’m thinking towards the onset of a bit of fin rot, bottom section of the tail fin is showing signs of becoming ragged. The markings on the head could be stress related.
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27-07-2019, 02:52 PM #7
If it isn't pox I'd guess that it looks more fungal than bacterial.
Personally if it's just the one fish I would leave it for a bit and see what starts to happen.
If it starts spreading but looks the same you could try applying Tamodine to it.
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27-07-2019, 04:52 PM #8
Dear all,
thanks for your help and views, I will for the moment sit on my hands to see what happens, it does not seem to be getting any worse and it could all simply be the move it went through last weekend fingers crossed, regarding nitrite and helping the fish whilst it goes through this transition is there anything else I could use as opposed salt ? I am concerned that salt will knock back the filters and then I will have an ammonia issue as well as nitrite?? I am trickling in 720 litres every 24 hour period so in one week it would be equivalent to 5000 litres which is not far off a 50% water refresh...… so I am hoping to see an improvement on Monday morning as this would be 72 hours at this rate or 2160 litres which is best part of 20% refresh, would like to trickle more but on a meter!! hopefully the warm days will continue and it wont be long before the nitrite starts to reduce? fingers crossed, I will report back if things start to worsen, the water is being quite heavily dosed with EA bombs and gel every day and has been for weeks not that appears to be doing anything as previously posted, , thanks Steve
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27-07-2019, 05:11 PM #9
I changed 3000 litres over last 2 days. That's 25%. Due to the nitrite spike I have.
Pond meter reading is 58465 litres for this year to date!
Definitely need to go anoxic filtration if it's true about not requiring water changes.
Have to say though, the koi have been very lively since the change, they were chasing round the pond early hours this morning and I was seriously worried the water change might induce them to spawn.... Last thing you need when struggling with parameters!
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27-07-2019, 05:40 PM #10
Hi RS,
Anoxic filtration, cannot comment as I have no idea what it is, I have seen a few threads about it that I believe you have been involved in, when you re tested your water after a 3000 litre change did it bring your nitrite spike down ? I refreshed around 1700 litres on Thursday which brought the nitrite down from 1 to 0.5 it seems to be around 0.5 to 0.8 I would estimate by the colour at the moment and has been like this for around 8 days now spiking to 1 at its worst, pleased your fish felt the benefit, are you on a water meter too ?
I will have a read up on this filtration, huge long term benefits if you do not need to worry about water changes going forward assume it is expensive to get it set up ? I will have a read, thanks Steve.Last edited by smartin; 27-07-2019 at 05:43 PM.
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27-07-2019, 05:52 PM #11
Cheap as chips to get anoxic set up compared to normal filtration. The science is complicated but setting it up looks too easy to be true. It's this Witchcraft aspect that probably hinders it's popularity.
Nitrites were between 1 and 2 before water change and between 0.5 and 1 after.
Yeah, on a meter, around £150 per month. I blame it on the teenage daughter who goes in bathroom for a shower and doesn't come out again for a couple of days lol.
Only fed them once since and I bet it's right back where it started now (can't check as I'm working).
Wondering if all my nitrite bugs lived in the eazy section of the filter that I ripped out when converting to drum. Either that or I killed them when draining Nexus down for 5 hours.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using TapatalkLast edited by RS2OOO; 27-07-2019 at 05:56 PM.
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27-07-2019, 06:18 PM #12
lol both my daughters have left home now so i have to blame the wife !!
Space for me will be an issue ref the AF I simply have nowhere for another pond no matter how small, does sound like you killed off your good bacteria if you did not suffer prior from nitrite issues, hopefully will soon be back in your filters mate... all my kit still only around 9 / 10weeks in so slowly getting there as early days still, pleased to see the cycle has started though at least the ammonia is being kept under control for the moment (famous last words) cheers Steve.
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27-07-2019, 07:34 PM #13
Have a look at my build thread, I’ve just finished making mine today
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27-07-2019, 07:36 PM #14
Sometimes it is best to sit on your hands and do nothing but watch,that is the best thing in my books,by watching you can learn a lot from koi and they can tell you a lot.
John
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31-07-2019, 07:39 AM #15
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31-07-2019, 09:15 AM #16
Steve,
Missed your question about adding salt and affecting cycling progress.
The amount of salt required is so small I don't think it will negatively affect cycling.
If you have hard water and a high PH then the koi should easily survive a month or 2 at 0.5 nitrites without salt.
Not saying that from a scientific angle, just saying it from experience of my previous conditions.
Once nitrites are hitting the 1 mg/l region you might want to add salt. I had nitrites up to 2mg/l for months and only added 100 grams per 1000 litres per 1 mg/l nitrite (i.e 200g per 1000 litres) and the koi were fine and didn't get any ammonia spike or stalling of the cycle that I could make out.
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31-07-2019, 02:20 PM #17
Hi RS,
Thanks for your reply, that's good to know, handy to have your dilution rates as well, did you dissolve the salt in warm water and then add to pond ? nitrite back to 0.5 and has been like this for a couple of days now so will "sit on my hands" still until I need to take action, I know its not ideal but fish are happy eating and swimming around so until I see signs of distress I will try to see this out for the moment, always difficult isn't it as you want to ensure their comfortable...…..cheers Steve
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31-07-2019, 02:48 PM #18
Definitely try and see it out mate as salt is a pig to remove.
If you had soft water, low PH, temps in the high 20s and nitrites over 1mg/l then for me that's good enough reason to add salt.
At 0.5 mg/l when all other parameters are perfect and oxygen is abundant then you should be fine for a Month or 2.
All based on my personal findings as opposed to research. Except the bit about soft water.... I read that hard water has calcium ions that assist against nitrites like salt does and these are void in soft water.... Don't know if truth in that.
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31-07-2019, 07:44 PM #19
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01-08-2019, 11:17 AM #20
I have added some SB to bring up my KH levels, it is now at 5, my PH is at 7.5 to 8, it was at 8.5 a few days back, nitrite at 0.5, cannot test for Ammonia until the new kit arrives..... Steve.
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Aquaforte Dm vario 20000 pumps
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