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  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Flashing 8 week old koi

    Had 6 week old koi for two weeks now and noticed some flashing a bit.
    Ph at 7.5
    Kh 4 drops
    Ammonia 0
    Nitrite up a little bit 0.25
    Doing water changes with sod thio so not that.
    A few have died for some reason with no marks.
    Hard to get the feed right as in not over feeding.
    Feeding automatically from 7 am till 7 PM every four hours and small bits inbetween.
    Am I feeding too much?
    Thought of adding a little salt to the tank which is at 21 deg,if so how much?
    Thought it may calm them down.
    Any ideas please?


    John

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  3. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Had 6 week old koi for two weeks now and noticed some flashing a bit.
    Ph at 7.5
    Kh 4 drops
    Ammonia 0
    Nitrite up a little bit 0.25
    Doing water changes with sod thio so not that.
    A few have died for some reason with no marks.
    Hard to get the feed right as in not over feeding.
    Feeding automatically from 7 am till 7 PM every four hours and small bits inbetween.
    Am I feeding too much?
    Thought of adding a little salt to the tank which is at 21 deg,if so how much?
    Thought it may calm them down.
    Any ideas please?

    Could well be overfeeding, its very easy to do... can you measure how much they are actually getting in a day? The in between feeds can easily mount up..

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  5. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Thanks for replying Dave,would overfeeding cause some to die?

    Should I put a little salt in?
    Will measure out what I am giving per day and get back.
    John

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  7. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Out of interest John, are they breathing really fast?

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  9. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Out of interest John, are they breathing really fast?
    To be honest Rs I havnt really noticed,but will have a look.
    John

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  11. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Dont know if my miniature scales are very good.

    Auto feeder doing 0.5 GM once four times a day( a large pinch )

    I'm between feeds I give the same or maybe more four times a day.

    So in a day 2gms by auto,and by hand the same or maybe 3 gms.

    So total 5gms for 250 fish.
    John

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  13. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Out of interest John, are they breathing really fast?
    No not breathing fast,but I have noticed a couple going like the clappers round the tank as though trying to get away from something.

    Could it be a parasite?
    If so what do I do now?
    John

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  15. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Dont know if my miniature scales are very good.

    Auto feeder doing 0.5 GM once four times a day( a large pinch )

    I'm between feeds I give the same or maybe more four times a day.

    So in a day 2gms by auto,and by hand the same or maybe 3 gms.

    So total 5gms for 250 fish.
    I don't think that is excessive..

    Try not to panic,the Nitrite is far from ideal, are you running this tank independent from your main pond. If so I would be looking to dilute the NO2 out.

    Davd

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  17. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Thanks David, yes it is a separate 350 gal tank with it's own vortex to seive/shower return so plenty of oxygen going in.

    Did a large water change this am so maybe keep that up.

    Could it be parasites?
    John

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  19. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Thanks David, yes it is a separate 350 gal tank with it's own vortex to seive/shower return so plenty of oxygen going in.

    Did a large water change this am so maybe keep that up.

    Could it be parasites?
    There s always that possibility, it s possible to scrape but such is really sacrificial a sharp implement s required Stanley blade or similar.

    The odd one that charges around icould be the result of predation, this might also explain the few casualties?

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai anne's Avatar
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    John have a look on the '' welcome to extreme koi thread '' Dustykoi has bought some Fry from NFK and posted up on that thread.
    Thought it might be an interesting read for you.

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  23. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    There s always that possibility, it s possible to scrape but such is really sacrificial a sharp implement s required Stanley blade or similar.

    Thanks Dave
    The odd one that charges around icould be the result of predation, this might also explain the few casualties?
    Thanks Dave, what do you mean "predation" ?
    John

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  25. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anne View Post
    John have a look on the '' welcome to extreme koi thread '' Dustykoi has bought some Fry from NFK and posted up on that thread.
    Thought it might be an interesting read for you.
    Thanks Anne will have a look.
    John

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  27. #14
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai anne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Thanks Dave, what do you mean "predation" ?
    Eats one another I think

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    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Well it's a fish eat fish world out there

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    Johnathan

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  31. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anne View Post
    Eats one another I think
    Looked it up and your right Anne.
    John

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  33. #17
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Yes, what you will sometimes see is that a fish will take a chunk out of another and then zoom off at speed, whether or not its to safeguard the mouthful or because it fears retaliation no idea - but it is often nip and go.

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  35. #18
    I would add a little salt as that will protect the fish from the nitrites, look online for a salt calculator.
    The salinity required to protect fish from nitrite is .002% salt (point zero zero two percent salinity) for every 1 ppm nitrite in the water, or a ratio of 20 to one salt to nitrite. As an example, if you test the water and there is 1ppm nitrite, you need to add enough salt to achieve a .002% salinity. If you read 2 ppm nitrite, then you need to have a .004% salinity and so on and so forth. You will need a salt meter to be able to read the salinity accurately..
    Last edited by trapper; 15-07-2019 at 12:37 AM.

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  37. #19
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Thanks Trapper for the info.

    Yesterday I put in 1 lb of salt into 350 gals as per Cuttlebrook article,
    think it is 0.05% hope that is ok but this morning they seem better.

    Next thing is to look for a salt meter as I havnt one, are the cheapo ones on Ebay ok?
    John

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  39. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    John,

    I'd be surprised if 0.25 nitrites are the cause of the flashing.

    I can't really help you but I did have the same experience with my fry.

    They flashed occasionally and I put it down to the powdered food.
    One very hot day they were flashing a hell of a lot, temp was 28C.
    They looked noticeably off colour compared to normal.
    They were also breathing faster than normal.

    All parameters checked out perfectly, so I significantly increased air.
    5 hours later there's no difference, and one of them had started lunking which I'd not previously seen.
    I transferred them to a bigger water volume, still the same symptoms.

    I went down the shot gun route and added fluke P (Prazi based) thinking it can't do any harm as its quite mild on koi and doesn't affect filters.

    By now its 1am so went to bed.
    Next morning I'm dreading to see what might have happened, but nothing, the flashing had stopped and they were all fine. Not seen any flashing since.

    What was the cause??

    Possibilities are:
    Delayed reaction to an ammonia spike?
    An ongoing reaction following a lack of oxygen?
    Flukes that got killed overnight?

    I have absolutely no idea.
    Doubtful about the ammonia as they're eating a hell of a lot more now and I've never detected any ammonia.
    Oxygen could be a possibility as they demand more oxygen than I expected. Even a minute reduction in air seems to increase breathing rate.
    Flukes could be a possibility as they were in a 2 foot tank, a closed system with perfect temps and conditions for flukes to multiply, but the person I got these fry from has had no such issues.

    Very strange.

    Overfeeding alone will not cause the symptoms you have, the fry can't really be overfed, but obviously the water can if it has a detrimental effect on parameters, and also fry have a very high metabolism, and it takes plenty of oxygen to digest all that food.

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