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  1. #1

    Fish still dying

    Further to my previous thread, I still have fish dying.
    The pond was treated with Fluke P even though no flukes could be seen under microscope.
    I did a 95% dechlorinated water change to remove any toxins.
    Stream and waterfalls running 24 hours.
    Oxygenator reduced by 50%.
    There is still no evidence of any problems on the live or dead fish. No white spot, fungus, fin damage, bloating, leeches, worms. Nothing.
    Right now there are 12 of the original 60 fish alive. One is gasping at the surface, one is stationary below the surface (24 hours), all others are feeding and acting normally.
    I have totally run out of ideas. Does anyone have any suggestions other than let them all die and let the pond stand empty of fish for several weeks before any new fish?



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Syd View Post
    Further to my previous thread, I still have fish dying.
    The pond was treated with Fluke P even though no flukes could be seen under microscope.
    I did a 95% dechlorinated water change to remove any toxins.
    Stream and waterfalls running 24 hours.
    Oxygenator reduced by 50%.
    There is still no evidence of any problems on the live or dead fish. No white spot, fungus, fin damage, bloating, leeches, worms. Nothing.
    Right now there are 12 of the original 60 fish alive. One is gasping at the surface, one is stationary below the surface (24 hours), all others are feeding and acting normally.
    I have totally run out of ideas. Does anyone have any suggestions other than let them all die and let the pond stand empty of fish for several weeks before any new fish?
    Really sorry your loosing fish mate I had similar problem years ago managed to save 3 fish out of whole pond, about 40 . Have you got means of quarantine ? Somewhere you can control temp ect a bit easier? The fish can help themselves in warmer water or how about medicated food? About all I sugest , I take it your filter is mature and your water is within parameters

    Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk

  4. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear this,what is your ph,kh etc?

    Need to know before you go anywhere.
    John

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffyrat View Post
    Really sorry your loosing fish mate I had similar problem years ago managed to save 3 fish out of whole pond, about 40 . Have you got means of quarantine ? Somewhere you can control temp ect a bit easier? The fish can help themselves in warmer water or how about medicated food? About all I sugest , I take it your filter is mature and your water is within parameters

    Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
    I do have a quarantine tank but I transferred 10 fish to the tank and 8 of them still died. I don't think the stress helped. I don't use filtration. It is not a koi pond. It has been running as an eco pond for 3 or 4 years. It's 44,000 litres so a stable environment.
    Just done another test as follows:
    NO3 - 10
    NO2 - 0
    GH - 8
    KH - 6
    PH - 8.4
    CL2 - 0
    AMMONIA - 0

    KH is the worst but still within good parameter.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Sorry to hear this,what is your ph,kh etc?

    Need to know before you go anywhere.
    NO3 - 10
    NO2 - 0
    GH - 8
    KH - 6
    PH - 8.4
    CL2 - 0
    AMMONIA - 0

    Couldn't really be any better.

  7. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion anne's Avatar
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    Syd, I would still give Lee Burroughs a ring, as said in a previous post ( if he hasn't retired yet that is ). He will travel or he will
    be able to give you advice on the phone.
    Have you or any neighbours been spraying anything in the garden, Pesticides or anything like that ? things can and will
    get carried on the wind .
    You can buy pond detox formulas to neutralise what ever is going on in the pond if your sure its not a parasite problem.

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  9. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syd View Post
    NO3 - 10
    NO2 - 0
    GH - 8
    KH - 6
    PH - 8.4
    CL2 - 0
    AMMONIA - 0

    Couldn't really be any better.
    That looks fine,dont know what to suggest Syd.

    Anyone out there able to help Syd please ?
    John

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  11. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    That looks fine,dont know what to suggest Syd.

    Anyone out there able to help Syd please ?
    I really think quarantine is the way I would go just to stabilise the fish and if it is infection it would limit damage to the rest of your fish, also would give a little breathing space to get some help or just time to figure things out, just my opinion I'm no expert but damage limitation seems sensible to me

    Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk

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  13. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by anne View Post
    Syd, I would still give Lee Burroughs a ring, as said in a previous post ( if he hasn't retired yet that is ). He will travel or he will
    be able to give you advice on the phone.
    Have you or any neighbours been spraying anything in the garden, Pesticides or anything like that ? things can and will
    get carried on the wind .
    You can buy pond detox formulas to neutralise what ever is going on in the pond if your sure its not a parasite problem.
    No spraying that I'm aware of and neighbours are not gardeners.
    What detox formulas are out there? I thought most remedies were for the usual parasite problems.

  14. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffyrat View Post
    I really think quarantine is the way I would go just to stabilise the fish and if it is infection it would limit damage to the rest of your fish, also would give a little breathing space to get some help or just time to figure things out, just my opinion I'm no expert but damage limitation seems sensible to me

    Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
    There's not many fish left now so quarantine would just confine them into a smaller space with added stress. The last ones I took out of the pond died within 24 hours so I really don't see what quarantine would do. Under normal circumstances I would agree with you. Through the years I have bred tropical fish, owned a reef tank and the pond was originally for koi. The only times I have used quarantine for any type of fish is for new additions or when just one or two fish have needed localised treatment. Whatever this is has travelled through the pond and all the fish.

    My only assumption now is that the fish have sustained internal damage, probably gills, and it is just a matter of time if they recover or die. Even Tetra have not been able to suggest anything else.

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  16. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Syd View Post
    There's not many fish left now so quarantine would just confine them into a smaller space with added stress. The last ones I took out of the pond died within 24 hours so I really don't see what quarantine would do. Under normal circumstances I would agree with you. Through the years I have bred tropical fish, owned a reef tank and the pond was originally for koi. The only times I have used quarantine for any type of fish is for new additions or when just one or two fish have needed localised treatment. Whatever this is has travelled through the pond and all the fish.

    My only assumption now is that the fish have sustained internal damage, probably gills, and it is just a matter of time if they recover or die. Even Tetra have not been able to suggest anything else.
    Have you got a uv light on the pond? The only outher thing I can possibly think of with all your water tests coming back OK would be an alge infection such as blue alge I know a few lakes have had the issue with it and can be detrimental to fish ect, it's the only thing I can think of, sorry I carnt be more helpful it must be terrible not being able to help your fish

    Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk

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  18. #12
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    What is the test kit that gave those readings?

    What size is your QT?

    You say you have no filtration ... does that mean there is none on the QT too?

  19. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    I really don't have a clue as to what could be going on here, so I am just p*ssing in the wind when I say this..... and maybe if I can't offer proper advice I shouldn't guess as to solutions.

    But, I have read of a similar situation to yours where a fish vet was at a complete loss as to the cause and after weeks of getting nowhere they decided to go down the "shotgun" route by using Pond Detox Formula by Lincolnshire Fish Health. The pond and all its fish quickly made a somewhat miraculous recovery.

    https://www.koi-zone.co.uk/Pond-Detox-Formula--300gms

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  21. #14
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    I really don't have a clue as to what could be going on here, so I am just p*ssing in the wind when I say this..... and maybe if I can't offer proper advice I shouldn't guess as to solutions.

    But, I have read of a similar situation to yours where a fish vet was at a complete loss as to the cause and after weeks of getting nowhere they decided to go down the "shotgun" route by using Pond Detox Formula by Lincolnshire Fish Health. The pond and all its fish quickly made a somewhat miraculous recovery.

    https://www.koi-zone.co.uk/Pond-Detox-Formula--300gms
    Hi RS ... I'd like to read that ... can you give a link? ...

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  23. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffyrat View Post
    Have you got a uv light on the pond? The only outher thing I can possibly think of with all your water tests coming back OK would be an alge infection such as blue alge I know a few lakes have had the issue with it and can be detrimental to fish ect, it's the only thing I can think of, sorry I carnt be more helpful it must be terrible not being able to help your fish

    Sent from my HTC U11 using Tapatalk
    I sold the UV when I changed from a koi pond to lily pond. I assume blue algae can be seen, so no, there is nothing like that. Besides I have 95% new water now which was a pain as it is now just turning green. Haven't had green water for years even in the spring.

  24. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    What is the test kit that gave those readings?

    What size is your QT?

    You say you have no filtration ... does that mean there is none on the QT too?
    I have a Tetra Pond 6 in 1 kit. Ammonia kit is separate.
    The QT is around 250 litres. No filter but circulating pump. All I've ever used.

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  26. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    I really don't have a clue as to what could be going on here, so I am just p*ssing in the wind when I say this..... and maybe if I can't offer proper advice I shouldn't guess as to solutions.

    But, I have read of a similar situation to yours where a fish vet was at a complete loss as to the cause and after weeks of getting nowhere they decided to go down the "shotgun" route by using Pond Detox Formula by Lincolnshire Fish Health. The pond and all its fish quickly made a somewhat miraculous recovery.

    https://www.koi-zone.co.uk/Pond-Detox-Formula--300gms
    Thanks RS. Many years ago I also read of a similar situation where an owner lost everything despite lab water tests and biopsy on euthanised fish. Looks like it's my turn. I have recorded the details of the Detox and will try it if any more fish die over the next few days. Still hoping the new water has got rid of the problem. Even desludged the pond floor. Maybe the existing fish have been damaged beyond recovery, so I am going to try adding a new fish to the pond to see how it fairs before restocking. If that also dies then it has to be something contagious and nothing to do with the pond.

  27. #18
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syd View Post
    I have a Tetra Pond 6 in 1 kit. Ammonia kit is separate.
    The QT is around 250 litres. No filter but circulating pump. All I've ever used.
    Syd please don't take this the wrong way I'm trying to help ... I've got no experience with the tetra kit but I do question the results.

    Unfiltered 250L QT with 10x stressed koi in it? ... I've had a single 6" goldfish in 200L (unfiltered) without feeding and the water had a dangerous level of Ammonia in it within 48hrs.

    Have you got any fish in the QT just now? ... if so what are the water parameters for the QT?

    Like I said this is not criticism ... just trying to help ... something doesn't add up here ...

  28. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    Syd please don't take this the wrong way I'm trying to help ... I've got no experience with the tetra kit but I do question the results.

    Unfiltered 250L QT with 10x stressed koi in it? ... I've had a single 6" goldfish in 200L (unfiltered) without feeding and the water had a dangerous level of Ammonia in it within 48hrs.

    Have you got any fish in the QT just now? ... if so what are the water parameters for the QT?

    Like I said this is not criticism ... just trying to help ... something doesn't add up here ...
    Nothing in QT now. All fish were around 6". Ammonia was zero. Been usingTetra kits for years, even when breeding.

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  30. #20
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syd View Post
    Nothing in QT now. All fish were around 6". Ammonia was zero. Been usingTetra kits for years, even when breeding.
    How long were they in the QT? ... zero ammonia is impossible after 24hrs in an unfiltered 250L tank even for 1x 6" fish ... something is wrong ... I'm inclined to again question your test kit? ... how old is it?

 

 
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