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Thread: Salt treatment?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Aggrowe's Avatar
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    Salt treatment?

    Hi,

    Had a few fish flashing last few days so scraped 4 fish:

    1) 2 gill flukes & a few Tric
    2) Tric
    3) couple of Tric
    4) 4 Tric found

    My normal course of action would be PP for Tric, then Flukes.…

    The problem I’ve got is I have 2 Sturgeon (which you can’t treat with PP) & they are so big now (1 is over a metre) I cannot temporarily remove them to holding tank cause they’ve out grown it!

    Could I treat the whole pond with salt for the Tric & Flukes?

    I know it’s not ideal but wondering if it’s an option?

    Cheers



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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai TAC's Avatar
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    Salt wont work for Flukes maybe you could salt bath them then treat the pond for flukes

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    Fluke solve can kill tric as well as sorting out flukes. I would try this if the sturgeon are an issue for other treatments.

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    Cheers.


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    I know many will disagree, but just tried to net my sturgeons & even my net ain’t big enough let alone the holding tank!

    I’ve decided to salt treat the whole pond, I’ve got a salt meter, but what amount of salt wilI I need to treat parasites (apart from flukes which I’ll do after)

    Have heard it’s 0.5 % is that true? Want to get my calculations right!

    Pond is 3140 gallons (14,285 litres)

    I know it takes a while to get rid of with water changes but I can leave my trickle running all the time & 20% changes each week I reckon it’ll be ok.


    Cheers


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    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Aggrowe's Avatar
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    Any help please Salt treatment?


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    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    I've only used salt for bacteria and ulcer treatment but I notice you have said you will be using a salt meter.

    Which meter is it? ... If it's one of the electronic one's they usually are only accurate in certain ranges i.e. if your salting to 0.3% = 3000ppm then the meters are usually quite accurate as most are calibrated to 3000ppm at factory.

    BUT ... if your stepping up to 0.5% = 5000ppm or higher your meter could be miles out and needs calibrating to whatever your target % is.

    I can't help you decide what salinity you need for your situation with tric, flukes and sturgeon but I can help you make sure your salinity is as accurate as possible (don't worry it's quite easy) when you do know.

    What meter do you have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    I've only used salt for bacteria and ulcer treatment but I notice you have said you will be using a salt meter.

    Which meter is it? ... If it's one of the electronic one's they usually are only accurate in certain ranges i.e. if your salting to 0.3% = 3000ppm then the meters are usually quite accurate as most are calibrated to 3000ppm at factory.

    BUT ... if your stepping up to 0.5% = 5000ppm or higher your meter could be miles out and needs calibrating to whatever your target % is.

    I can't help you decide what salinity you need for your situation with tric, flukes and sturgeon but I can help you make sure your salinity is as accurate as possible (don't worry it's quite easy) when you do know.

    What meter do you have?
    Would be interested to know best way to check salinity Trace.
    Sorry hijacking your thread Aggrowe,maybe a new thread Trace.
    John

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    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Aggrowe's Avatar
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    Thanks.

    Koi medic

    IMG_0752.jpg

    Cheers


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    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Would be interested to know best way to check salinity Trace.
    Sorry hijacking your thread Aggrowe,maybe a new thread Trace.
    This is relevent to Aggrowe too in this thread:

    You can use a refractometer but accurate one's for these tiny percentages are expensive.

    The easiest way is with an electronic meter, either Salinity (%) meter, TDS (total dissolved solids) meter or EC (electrical conductivity) meter.

    They all just measure the EC (uS/cm or mS/cm ... micro or milli siemens per centimetre) and convert it to salinity % or TDS (PPM parts per million) via a microcontroller.

    The main point about the meters is whether you are buying a £5 or a £50+ meter they all usually use the same microcontroller for measurement ... AND they are only of use if they have been calibrated properly.

    They all say they are factory calibrated but I would never trust that when fish health relies upon it .... and why rely on hoping a meter is accurate when it takes about 2 mins to check it out. Also what salinity was it factory calibrated to?

    Good news is they can be very accurate but they are only accurate closely around the calibration point so if your salting to:

    0.3% ... then calibrate to 3000ppm ... then test your salted water sample.
    0.6% ... then calibrate to 6000ppm ... then test.
    0.9% ... then calibrate to 9000ppm ... then test.

    Calibration or checking accuracy of calibration seems daunting at first but really it's super easy and takes only a few mins.

    You can buy calibration fluid but it's a total waste of money and they are only of use at specific temperatures. I could go into how to make your own super accurate calibration fluids but that level of accuracy isn't required here.

    All you need to make accurate salinity calibration fluid is:

    1) A 1L plastic bottle.
    2) Some (99% pure or better) salt with NO additives.
    3) A set of digital kitchen scales.
    4) A plastic jug with pouring spout larger than 1ltr in size.

    Here's how I would make an accurate 0.3% solution to check my meter before testing e.g. a QT water sample to see if it is actually 0.3%:

    1) Measuring jug scale's are not very accurate and judging them by eye is also pretty dodgy so I use water weight to measure out 1L of water (this is not completely accurate either but much closer than jug scale's and gives me an accurate easily repeatable volume of water for other %'s of salinity) ..... for this application 1L = 1000g (Grams) of water. So put your jug with spout on the scales ... zero the display ... then pour in water till you get exactly 1000g.

    2) Carefully pour the 1000g of water into the plastic bottle.

    3) Measure out your salt for 1L ... here's amounts for different %'s:

    0.3% = 3g
    0.6% = 6g
    0.9% = 9g

    I use a small set of jeweller's scales for this (<£5 from ebay and very accurate) but your kitchen scales will probs be accurate enough if your careful (e.g. measure 2g then very slowly add tiny amounts till it just changes to 3g) ... but jeweller's scales being so cheap are much better for these small amounts and very handy for a lot of other things too.


    4) Add the salt to your accurate 1000g of water in the bottle ... shut lid ... shake till the salt dissolves .... Voila! ... accurate calibration fluid .... label the bottle e.g. 0.3% and 1L will last for ages.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ok to do the test I get three plastic cups: 1x for the QT test sample, 1x for the calibration sample and the third one for some deionised water (this is VERY important as a probe rinse after using the calibration sample and dirt cheap at most supermarkets).

    So normally calibration samples are used at specific temperatures but the way I do it here does away with that requirement as the calibration sample and QT sample will be the same temperature.

    All samples (I only use about 25mm depth of water in each cup) are left beside each other for 20 or 30mins so the temperatures of them equalize.

    I give the meter a quick rinse in the deionised sample ... if it's on it will read very low in single figures if your using the PPM scale.

    Then I shake it off to clear the electrodes and put it in the calibration fluid .... and adjust the calibration to whatever the fluid is by whatever method the meter uses (some use a screwdriver to turn a potentiometer, some use button pushing after a mode change, it'll be in the instructions).

    0.3% fluid ... then calibrate meter to 3000ppm
    0.6% fluid ... then calibrate meter to 6000ppm
    0.9% fluid ... then calibrate meter to 9000ppm

    Then rinse by stirring in the deionised water again, shake off and test the sample from the e.g. QT .

    Usually I've found the meter calibration if kept at a particular salinity percentage to last for a few weeks but if the meter is left lying for any length of time it's always best to re-calibrate as it can wander off quite a bit. But what's the problem with that, once you've got bottles of 0.3%, 0.6% and 0.9% calibration fluid accurate salinity testing only takes 2 mins. You'd have to be pretty lazy if that was too much for you ...

    Most of these meters with the same microcontroller are accurate to + or - 2% (when they display in PPM) so correct readings in PPM will be between these parameters for each salinity %:

    0.3% = 2800 - 3200 PPM
    0.6% = 5800 - 6200 PPM
    0.9% = 8800 - 9200 PPM

    The higher the salinity % you want the more important it is for you to be accurate or your fish could suffer ... now there's no excuse not to test your meter's accuracy ...

    P.s. ... just a quick add on ... if your meter reads in PPT (parts per thousand) instead of PPM it's a simple conversion (1 PPT = 1000 PPM) ... so e.g. 0.3% = 3 PPT = 3000 PPM.

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    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrowe View Post
    Thanks.

    Koi medic

    IMG_0752.jpg

    Cheers


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    Ok koi medic use a single fixed (0.5% = 5000 PPM) midrange value to calibrate (apparently it's a one touch calibration procedure) so just make a 0.5% solution as above and test the accuracy of your meter ... if it needs calibrated follow their one touch procedure ...

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    Thanks Trace very informative a d sounds quite simple.

    Would the cheap meters on Ebay be ok and could you give an example Trace?
    John

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    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Thanks Trace very informative a d sounds quite simple.

    Would the cheap meters on Ebay be ok and could you give an example Trace?
    It is totally straightforward ... and yes a lot of cheap meters are perfectly suitable ... I think the best one's are the TDS meters that read in PPM as they are the most accurate and I'm just OCD like that ...

    The one I use is an "EZ-1 TDS & EC" meter (pic below) ... it's been great ... the only problem I've had with it was a small leak at the electrodes but it was easy to sort. If you get one let me know and I'll show you where to seal (they are supposed to be sealed from the inside but the design of these doesn't make it easy to do that in the manufacturing process so I think quite a few of these will have the same small leaks) and I'm sure the manufacturer doesn't mind them failing after a couple of years and selling more.

    One thing I don't like about all of these meters is they have deep skirts protecting the electrodes, a lot of air bubbles get trapped and cling to the electrodes as you put the meter into a sample and make a big difference in readings (these electrode protection skirts are on all these meters cheap and expensive) and the bubbles are almost impossible to knock off with the skirts holding them in ... I have modified mine (as in the 2nd pic below) so now when I use clear plastic cups for the water samples I can easily see that there are no air bubbles skewing the readings. I think there is a major failing in almost all meter instructions not making a bigger point of mentioning this ... I've never seen instructions yet that detail this well at all ...

    ez-1 meter.jpg ez-1 mod.jpg
    (click to enlarge)

    Sorry Aggrowe ... back to the original topic now but the info above is relevent to you in this situation if you want to be accurate in salinity ...

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Great thanks Trace,I have seen that one on Ebay.

    Looks like you put some silicone round the electrodes to make it waterproof?
    John

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  27. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Aggrowe's Avatar
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    Thanks Trace Salt treatment?

    Good info!

    Just need to find out how much salt to treat my 3140 gallons for Tric etc now…


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    Good luck with that Aggrowe.
    John

 

 

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