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  1. #1

    Koi laying on side at bottom of pond

    Hi All, I'm a new member and this is my first post because I've got a serious problem with one koi that I need help with please.

    I've got a mature pond (10+years) of 3500 gallons with a Nexus Easy and waterfall. I have 10 biggish koi (30 - 45 cm). 2 weeks ago I noticed one koi laying on his side at the bottom, now and then he would make a vigorous effort to try to swim normally, but after a few seconds he would fall on his side again. I did some water tests and at the time pH was 5 and ammonia was 1.5 (so ammonium). I immediately did a 25-30% water change and added some balance balls and booster to the Nexus. pH is now 7 or 7.5 and ammonia is practically zero. I also gradually raised the water temperature from 12c to about 18 or 19c. All of the other fish are behaving and feeding normally, but this one fish remained the same, not feeding, as though he couldn't be bothered much.
    So 3 days ago I fished him out into a makeshift hospital tank with a small filter and heater. I've raised the temperature further,now at 22c. Yesterday I did a scrape and nothing shows up on the microscope. The fish remains the same, laying on his side at the bottom doing nothing, occasionally flapping his pectoral fins or wriggling along on his side when I hove into view. It doesn't look good. I'm aware of swim bladder disease, but not sure whether that's it or quite what to do for the best. He's not a prize specimen whatsoever, but even so I want to do the best for him.
    I would be very grateful for any advice or help, thank you.



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    PH at 5 is incredibly low. Almost certainly had a PH crash. What was your KH reading and what is it now?

    Also are you on top of the water parameters in the hospital tank, ammonia etc?

    Not sure what could be wrong with the Koi, whether swim bladder or some kind of shock, sounds like the former if he's sinking to the bottom but not sure and therefore I couldn't suggest a treatment regime.

    Maybe others who've experience similar might be able to offer more help.

    I think photos of the Koi in question may offer some further clues, or even a video if possible.

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Skoosh88's Avatar
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    Koi laying on side at bottom of pond

    Sounds like it could be a nitrite spike as well as a ph crash, I’m suffering from one just now that’s effecting my younger koi and one of them was on his side on the bottom due to lack of oxygen intake I reckon, have a look at mankysanke website and check it’s gills to see if they are going brown


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    Last edited by Skoosh88; 08-05-2019 at 09:04 PM.

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  6. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Cant really make a call on whether it was the effects of the pH crash that have caused the problem to this fish or if the issue lies elsewhere.

    The prognosis probably isn't good from what you are describing.

    Temporary tanks can cause more issues than they solve as maintaining the water quality becomes challenging and good water is a fundamental for solving problems. If you can keep the water sweet in the tank then just maybe worth adding some salt to help with stress. half oz per gallon would be my suggestion.

    If you cant or don't think you can keep the water parameters pretty much perfect in the tank then I would return to the main pond.

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  8. #5
    Many thanks for these helpful comments. I have attached a photo as suggested to see if that helps with diagnosis. (I tried to upload a video clip but it's in mov or mp4 format and I can't seem to convert it to a format which the forum system can accept) The koi is just laying there on his side, at other times he flaps his pectoral fins or wriggles around trying to right himself and then flops back.
    I'm worried about maintaining water quality in this small makeshift space, so I'm thinking of trying the salt treatment as Davej suggests, perhaps for a day, then return to main pond where my other fish are all fine.
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  9. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Skoosh88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robnap View Post
    Many thanks for these helpful comments. I have attached a photo as suggested to see if that helps with diagnosis. (I tried to upload a video clip but it's in mov or mp4 format and I can't seem to convert it to a format which the forum system can accept) The koi is just laying there on his side, at other times he flaps his pectoral fins or wriggles around trying to right himself and then flops back.
    I'm worried about maintaining water quality in this small makeshift space, so I'm thinking of trying the salt treatment as Davej suggests, perhaps for a day, then return to main pond where my other fish are all fine.
    What’s your nitrite level?


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  10. #7
    I've just done a water test in the temporary tank, nitrite is 0.3, pH is 7.5, ammonia is 1.5 which I suppose is worrying even at that pH reading.

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  12. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Skoosh88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robnap View Post
    I've just done a water test in the temporary tank, nitrite is 0.3, pH is 7.5, ammonia is 1.5 which I suppose is worrying even at that pH reading.
    Do you have other fish in the temp tank? I think you need to do a 20/30% water change to bring that ammonia level down


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  14. #9
    I've just done a water test on the temporary tank, nitrite is 0.3, pH is 7.5, ammonia is 1.5 which I suppose is worrying even at that pH reading.

  15. #10
    No Skoosh88, just this sick one. I'm just doing a salt treatment as recommended, I can do the water change tomorrow morning.

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  17. #11
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robnap View Post
    No Skoosh88, just this sick one. I'm just doing a salt treatment as recommended, I can do the water change tomorrow morning.
    Hi,

    I suggested salt to try and help with the stress of the fish being in the temporary tank, but the pre cursor was that the water in the tank needed to be sweet ie near perfect in parameters.. With the levels of ammonia/nitrite you have in the tank then you will be doing more harm than good.

    Dave

  18. #12
    Yes Dave, you were very clear, I'm doing a water change and will return the koi to the main pond as soon as I can get temperatures reasonably close.
    The fish is the same, I'm not at all optimistic about his chances, and I'm wondering whether it might be kinder to put him out of his misery.

  19. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robnap View Post
    Yes Dave, you were very clear, I'm doing a water change and will return the koi to the main pond as soon as I can get temperatures reasonably close.
    The fish is the same, I'm not at all optimistic about his chances, and I'm wondering whether it might be kinder to put him out of his misery.
    Ta Rob.

    Never an easy one, particularly as there isn't an understanding behind the problem - if there was then could consider a remedy.

    Id see the options as returning the fish to the better water of the pond and letting nature take its course or help what seems the probable outcome. Its a call that is for you the owner, for sure no one is going to be critical of your decision.

    Dave

 

 

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