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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Red Veins on body and reddish fins

    Transferring my Koi to a temp pool today and noticed red veins on the body of my Doitsu Sanke, red pectoral fins and some red sore looking areas on the tail.

    Only had him since November and a few veins were very slightly visible then, but not as pronounced as they are now. The fins also look waxy, as does a few areas on the body particularly in front of the dorsal on the beni where there's a slight waxy coating just visible (you can see it in the pics if you look hard enough).

    This kind of thing on fancy goldfish is virtually always caused by water quality, but all the parameters I'm able to measure are perfect.

    Ammonia = 0
    Nitrite = 0
    Nitrate = 20
    PH = 8.2
    KH = 9
    GH = 13
    Phosphate = 1

    Having only had the Koi since November I've hardly fed her and the pond's been covered most of the time so I don't really know what is "normal" for this particular fish. She sits on the bottom when its cold, slowly swims around when its warmer, she's still nervous about coming up for food but usually grabs a couple of pellets once all the greedy ones have finished.

    Any ideas?

    IMG_20190223_112130.jpgRed Veins.jpgCapture.jpg



  2. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    Red veining is normally down to stress. Keep an eye on the koi over the next few days.
    The redness should disappear but if it doesn't then may be worth doing scrapes or salt baths
    Last edited by Andy1671; 24-02-2019 at 09:47 AM.
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  4. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    Looking at the pictures it does look like stress to me
    5000 Gallon Fibreglassed Pond With 54" x 27" Infinity Window
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    Artesian 0.5hp - Aquadyne 4.4c Beadfilter - PS4 Protein Shower
    Badu Eco Touch - EP20 UV Sterilizer - ASHP - Venturi
    Hi Blo 60 - Medo 45 - Spindrifter Bottom Drain
    Wide Mouthed Skimmer

  5. #4
    Yep stress, what is the water temperature?

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  7. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Temp has been no lower than 4C.

    Been around 5 - 6C most of the time.

    Currently 8C, and as I've transferred to temp pool in the garage it will likely be 10C by tomorrow.

    Thank you very much for the fast replies. I have to say, this Koi has never seemed "happy" since I picked her up in November. I put it down to cold temps, and I also suspect there might be a history of carp pox, but really don't know for sure, I'm just guessing from the waxy coating.

    The fish isn't slimy to the touch, i.e no excess mucus coating that I can tell.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 23-02-2019 at 08:49 PM.

  8. #6
    Those temperatures shouldn't cause a problem especially if it's 8°C at the moment. If she has never looked happy since November, maybe, as Andy said, you should scrape just to make sure it isn't a parasite infection.

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  10. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Thank you.

    I shall do a scrape and report back tomorrow or Monday. As she's been moved today I'd rather leave it a day or 2 to avoid stressing her too much.

    I picked up another koi at the same time from the same private seller, out of the same well established pond. The other koi has no such symptoms and has settled in really well and eats well too.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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  12. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    I added 3 koi from my QT into my pond. 2 of them settled in really well but the other one was stressed like yours for a few days.
    I gave it salt baths and after 3 baths it settled down nicely
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  14. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Thing is Andy, I suspect this has been going on for a while but only realised how bad it looks when I bowled her today.

    What salt solution do you use for baths and how long do you bath them for?

    Been about 20 years since I last did a salt bath.

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  16. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    i'll will check but i think its 25 ounces of salt in 45 litres of water for 30 minutes.
    Never leave the fish alone and remove back to pond if the fish is struggling
    It may become unstable because of the salt in the water
    5000 Gallon Fibreglassed Pond With 54" x 27" Infinity Window
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    Hi Blo 60 - Medo 45 - Spindrifter Bottom Drain
    Wide Mouthed Skimmer

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  18. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Just to update, I've not scraped yet as I didn't want to stress her anymore especially as there's a bit of ammonia in the pool which stressing all of them a little.. Currently extending the pond so will scrape when I transfer her back which hopefully will be Friday or Saturday.

    The fins don't look quite as red today, but the veins on the body still look the same as in the pics.

    That's a hell of a lot of salt Andy, what's that work out as, 2.5% ish?

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    On Duncan Griffiths book he says a dip of 1.8% for 10mins is effective.

    Or put some in tank @ 1/2 oz per gal or less for a calming effect.
    John

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  22. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Thanks John, that's really helpful.

    The redness seems to have faded away a little, difficult to be sure as the Koi has been moved from a blue pool to a black pond, but she's become a bit more lively, was first up for food for the first time ever, and might just be starting to settle in.

    Have seen the occasional flash from a few of them (this one no more than the others), could be due to environment changes or residual chlorine due to pond extension but just going to keep an eye for a bit longer before scraping. Wanted to scrape this one whilst transferring from pool back to pond, but she was a bugger to catch and thrashed about in the sock so I didn't want to stress her more by scraping at that time.

    Will update if there's any further developments.

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  24. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Just looking back at some photos taken of the pond and Koi the day after buying this Sanke, and its apparent the red fins, veins and quite a sore looking reddish area on the side of the tail tube were already there when I bought her. I didn't notice any of it when viewing the Koi.

    She's eating well but still appears a little more lethargic than she should be now the temps are warming up so I do suspect something is afoot, and in view of Pips current problem with Costia, and the fact we both bought Koi from the same place at the same time it does warrant investigating.

    As I'm unheated and can't treat until temps rise a couple more degrees, and the Koi are fine in the main, I'll continue to monitor and will scrape shortly.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 05-03-2019 at 12:44 AM.

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  26. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Redness on the fins is looking much better, but noticed her sitting on the bottom a few times today, even though she now instantly comes to the top when food goes in.


    Took a couple of scrapes but the mucus collected was tiny as I struggled holding her and scraping by myself, got maybe 2mm x 1mm worth on each slide and didn't find anything. Need to get the wife to give me a hand and have another go.

  27. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Took more scrapes today, this time on 3 Koi as my samples are so bad I was hoping one would turn out a good scrape.

    And it did.... One of the smaller Koi stayed perfectly still in my hand whilst I scraped her, and this time I did it with the slide rather than wooden coffee stirrers like normal and got a decent amount of mucus from around the lateral line behind the gill.

    This scrape picked up a handful of gill flukes. (3 live ones and 2 dead ones which had dried out by the time I got to them).

    I still feel there's something else that I'm not picking up, especially as I couldn't get any scrapes from under the mouth towards the pecs, but for now at least I can treat the flukes and watch for any improvement.

    Have a crate of Colombo Lernex somewhere, but will be damned if I can find it.... Just about to tear down the garage searching!

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  29. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Found the Colombo Lernex, but it doesn't work at low temps, so going to treat with Fluke Solve, then use Lernex on subsequent doses if temps have gone up.

    Bear me in mind if you need any Lernex later on in spring or early summer, mine has a Jan 2020 expiry so if I end up not using it I'll be happy to sell it on cheaper than the shops.

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  31. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Treated today, Tuesday 12th March, 48 grams of Fluke solve added to the pond.

    I put the 48 grams into a smoothie jug of hot water and ran the smoothie maker for around a minute.

    This made a wonderful froffy mix that looked and smelt amazing.

    Added this to a bucket of pond water and poured it in. It mixed very well into a milk-like solution leaving hardly any bits and the whole pond is now a cloudy white colour. Definitely mixed much better than just stirring the powder into a bucket.

    Fed the fish soon after to encourage them to ingest some, and keep their mouths moving in the hope of quickly getting the treatment into the gills to kill those critters. The worst affected was spitting the food back out, but he kept trying to eat which was good to get the mixture through his gills.

    Just a waiting game now I guess.

    At these temps I'll probably wait the whole 21 days before re-treating as fluke eggs not likely to hatch quick at sub 10C.

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  33. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Thursday 14th March, 48 hours after dosing Fluke Solve.

    Problems far from fixed, 3 smaller Koi still clamped up on the bottom, but now having the occasional swim around.

    The only quantifiable differences are:

    1) The big Sanke (Pictured in OP) has not sat on the bottom once today. Swimming around like she should and eating well. Still has red veins and reddish fins.

    2) The small Koi who was spitting food didn't eat yesterday, but today he ate and didn't spit it out. Went back to bottom and clamped himself up afterwards.

    There are no other behaviour improvements that I can be sure of at this stage, but looking in the pond tonight I feel more confident of a recovery than I did yesterday or even this morning.

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  35. #20
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai Mythril's Avatar
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    I've just treated my pond with Fluke Solve and I've a very funny feeling it's not worked. Saturday will be seven days since administration so I'll scrape and see. One was trail walking out of the pubs this morning according to the other half.

    Has anyone ever up'd the dosage rate ? I know it's meant to work at 3c water temp and I'm about 5c at present but I've a feeling I've still got Flukes... I've still got several 100g packs of Fluke Solve left, but their so bloody expensive even at trade price Red Veins on body and reddish fins

 

 
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