Welcome to Koi Forum. Is this your first visit? Register
Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1

    supaverm experiences

    I thought things were going pretty well recently in my pond, then coincidentally Adam started a thread about flukes and that same evening i noticed my fish flashing, some quite vigorously. Now this was a shock because id seen no flashing previously but obviously something was amiss and it had come on very quickly. So out comes the microscope, took a scrape from one of the fish that was flashing the most....damn skin flukes bold as brass

    So i made the decision, supaverm time, now i was a bit nervous with this decision because of all the differing opinions on supaverm, with some ranging to the extreme of very dangerous and id never use that etc etc.
    Im not one to believe all things i read, knowing full well some of it is 3rd hand info, or tales that grow in proportion every time they are retold, usually by folk who haven't even tried it.
    So i very accurately measured out the dosage which is 1ml per 100 uk gallons and added it very, very slowly over a 4 hour time period, a couple of ml at a time.

    I was surprised to see the water cloud very slightly at such a small dose. Now there's no mistake the fish don't like it, initial reaction was similar to treating with m.g and f or p.p but my fish shrug those treatments off and are swimming and eating as normal 2 hours later, this definitely was more stressful, they were just not quite themselves for most of the treatment period, appetite was well down but they would still take food, a couple were sitting on the bottom for periods and one fish had pinked up slightly, but tbh i only noticed that today after i caught it to scrape it, so that might have caused that, apart from that 90 percent of the fish swam about as normal, but just looking a bit sullen for want of a better description.

    Duncan says wait 3-4 days then do a 15-20 percent water change, well today was the 3rd day, so i dropped 20 percent water and have been refilling all afternoon, and interestingly the water had completely cleared up before i started , most of the the fish were looking a bit brighter and their appetite was coming back, so i scraped the 2 fish that were flashing the most and found nothing, they are completely fluke free. The ponds just finished topping back up with water now and everyones looking completely normal.

    Tbh , now ive used it, i do think supaverm has perhaps, a some what deserved reputation for being harsh, they definitely don't like it but having said that, at no time was i in fear for any of my fishes well being, i was on hand almost all of the time, flashing got quite intense initially but that's as bad as things got.

    I wonder how many negative reports have come from accidentally over dosing, even just a tiny amount, i was precise down to half a ml and that's what you need to be working like, imo with supaverm, you can get away with accidental slight overdoses, to some extent with most treatments but my feeling with supaverm is, that if you overdose even slightly then your in for trouble, so if you have an odd shaped pond or one that's difficult to work out the volume, then don't use it.

    Im not promoting the use of supaverm, but after trying everything else with only varying degrees of success, i thought id try it, and that's how i would approach it tbh, try the other treatments first and maybe think about using supaverm lastly if you need too.

    Would i use it again...yes, but only if i can be there the whole time, only if the pond volume can be worked out extremely accurately and only after ive tried everything else.

    David



  2. Thanks Feline, AdamKoi78, john1, freddyboy, lee63, voodoo_15_uk Thanked / Liked this Post
  3. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion AdamKoi78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    2,212
    Thanks / Likes
    1563
    Interesting David, I'm in no rush to use it but I will consider supaverm if all else fails.

  4. Thanks familyman, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  5. #3
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    Well done for being brave and giving it a go!

    It seems this year quite a few of us are having the spring flukefest. Mine were not really flashing (just the usual occasional one after feeding). But some were accumulating a bit of excess mucus on their heads. Scrapes showed a fair number of skin flukes on the most mucusy fish. I don't normally do this because I think it's a bit harsh on the fish- but I've PP'd the pond today to strip a bit of mucus off them so I can treat the flukes tomorrow. There was so much mucus there I don't think the fluke treatment would work properly otherwise.

    I've got quite a large container of Flubenol in stock, so am going to use that. But if 2 treatments with that don't 100% fix the problem I might well join you with the Supaverm.

    I've never been able to use it before because I had one goldfish in my pond. But he randomly died last summer immediately following a Prazi treatment (which is not meant to be toxic to goldfish so is a bit odd). So for the first time i'm the 100% koi position of being able to use SV.

  6. Thanks familyman, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  7. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai TAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Colchester
    Posts
    464
    Thanks / Likes
    290
    Sorry David there is no chance of me going down that road, having spent thousands on my koi the risks are far too great.

    I have also read that it can affect the respiratory system,and can cause blindness plus damage to the internal organs. Overdosing will kill.

  8. Thanks RJW2012, familyman, freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  9. #5
    ha ha...... no need to apologise, im not trying to talk anybody into using it, just thought id find out for myself, and post my own findings and thoughts

    David

  10. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    N.Wales.
    Posts
    8,700
    Thanks / Likes
    15243
    I will give you credit for having a go David with Supaverm and it has worked for you so i am well pleased.

    What is Supaverm and where is it purchased?

    Heard of it on here before and in Duncs book but never seen it on sale anywhere not that i am rushing out to buy it but if it works ok then it is one for the book.
    John

  11. Thanks freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
  12. #7
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    I will give you credit for having a go David with Supaverm and it has worked for you so i am well pleased.

    What is Supaverm and where is it purchased?

    Heard of it on here before and in Duncs book but never seen it on sale anywhere not that i am rushing out to buy it but if it works ok then it is one for the book.

    Its a sheep drench for worming them. It is a POM so you need a prescription, or to get it from your vet.

    The main reason I might consider using it this year is ever since I got the drum Ive had trouble getting fluke so,ve to work. I think the drum is just taking it out of the water straight away. SV is a liquid so this should be less of an issue.

  13. Thanks john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  14. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion AdamKoi78's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    2,212
    Thanks / Likes
    1563
    Feline have you thought about using levamisole?

  15. #9
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamKoi78 View Post
    Feline have you thought about using levamisole?
    Have consudered it yes.
    Im in the fortunate position of being able to order in any drug I like
    I did Flubenol today and kept the filters off for 3 hours. The fish seem very bright and happy this evening- one who hasnt fed much so far this spring was up and gobbling pellets. So seems to have been effective. I’m going to repeat in 1 week then do some more scrapes the following week to see if its nailed it. I like flubenol for how mild it is on the fish plus a 500g tub goes an awful long way. Not as long as a litre bag of Supaverm would tho!

  16. Thanks freddyboy, john1 Thanked / Liked this Post
  17. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    N.Wales.
    Posts
    8,700
    Thanks / Likes
    15243
    Is this the one you used Lara? https://www.hyperdrug.co.uk/Flubenol...SAAEgKQX_D_BwE

    Not cheap but as you say maybe goes a long way.
    John

  18. #11
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai blue harbour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    In the town with the bent spire
    Posts
    670
    Thanks / Likes
    391
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    The main reason I might consider using it this year is ever since I got the drum Ive had trouble getting fluke so,ve to work. I think the drum is just taking it out of the water straight away. SV is a liquid so this should be less of an issue.
    Interesting you saying this, I have had/am having trouble getting rid of flukes at the moment, have tried fluke m and fluke solve, last time with a pre treatment pp dose to strip the mucus, and yet the other week I came home to find/be told that my favourite kuhaku had gone banzai and jumped out and was found dead at the side of the pond.

    Didn’t take long to find I had flukes again/still which was very disheartening, not only because of the money wasted on buying the various treatments (that obviously hadn’t worked), but also because its ultimately led to me loosing what was one of my favourite fishsupaverm experiences

    I’m now at my wits end with the whole fluke issue so I have asked Dave if I can nab a dose of the supaverm to knock this on the head once and for all, but reading the above I wonder if (partly) the reason for my lack of luck/progress with trying to treat for flukes is me having a drum too, and so the treatment is getting taken out before it’s had a chance to really do its thing!?

    I’ve got a Draco drum too, which (as far as I know) has a finer mesh than most other drum screens at what I seem to recall is 58microns, so could this mean it’s even more likely to have been removing the treatment too quickly!?

    All I do know for sure is I want this problem sorted once and for all!! I’ll not be adding anymore fish now so my hope is once I’ve nailed it, this problem will never rear its head again!



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Fry Dracodrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    north wales
    Posts
    14
    Thanks / Likes
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by blue harbour View Post
    Interesting you saying this, I have had/am having trouble getting rid of flukes at the moment, have tried fluke m and fluke solve, last time with a pre treatment pp dose to strip the mucus, and yet the other week I came home to find/be told that my favourite kuhaku had gone banzai and jumped out and was found dead at the side of the pond.

    Didn’t take long to find I had flukes again/still which was very disheartening, not only because of the money wasted on buying the various treatments (that obviously hadn’t worked), but also because its ultimately led to me loosing what was one of my favourite fishsupaverm experiences

    I’m now at my wits end with the whole fluke issue so I have asked Dave if I can nab a dose of the supaverm to knock this on the head once and for all, but reading the above I wonder if (partly) the reason for my lack of luck/progress with trying to treat for flukes is me having a drum too, and so the treatment is getting taken out before it’s had a chance to really do its thing!?

    I’ve got a Draco drum too, which (as far as I know) has a finer mesh than most other drum screens at what I seem to recall is 58microns, so could this mean it’s even more likely to have been removing the treatment too quickly!?

    All I do know for sure is I want this problem sorted once and for all!! I’ll not be adding anymore fish now so my hope is once I’ve nailed it, this problem will never rear its head again!



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If ever there's even the slightest doubt, I'd bypass the drum for a few days just to make sure. And with flukes, ONCE I have dosed, I raise the pond level by 1 inch, just to make sure I catch the lot round the water line.

  20. Thanks RS2OOO Thanked / Liked this Post
  21. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    N.Wales.
    Posts
    8,700
    Thanks / Likes
    15243
    If i dose with anything i remove the two plates on my Draco Solum to bypass the screen for a while.
    John

  22. #14
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    I wish it was easy to remove the bypass bungs from my drum- unfortunately I would need arms about 1m long to do this on my combi. I have to drain down the front section and take off one of the input rubber boots to get to them.

    When I treated for flukes last month I turned the filters off for 4 hours, just running for approx 1min per hour to keep the shower media wet but didnt give the drum time to clean. Seemed to work fine.

  23. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Have consudered it yes.
    Im in the fortunate position of being able to order in any drug I like
    I did Flubenol today and kept the filters off for 3 hours. The fish seem very bright and happy this evening- one who hasnt fed much so far this spring was up and gobbling pellets. So seems to have been effective. I’m going to repeat in 1 week then do some more scrapes the following week to see if its nailed it. I like flubenol for how mild it is on the fish plus a 500g tub goes an awful long way. Not as long as a litre bag of Supaverm would tho!
    how did the flub work Feline?

  24. #16
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    Quote Originally Posted by familyman View Post
    how did the flub work Feline?
    On this occasion worked fine- I did PP then 1st dose follwing day, then repeated just the flub in 1 week. Am due to do some more follow up scrapes this week really but the post treatment ones were clear and the fish are happy.

  25. Thanks familyman Thanked / Liked this Post
  26. #17
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai blue harbour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    In the town with the bent spire
    Posts
    670
    Thanks / Likes
    391
    Well the supaverm is in, well ok it’s been (at full dose) since about 2:45pm yesterday afto, not sure what to think really. Fish don’t seem to be stressed out by it in any real way, there generally swimming around looking for food (I’ve stopped the feed while I’m treating), and earlier on when I temporarily turned the air to the bd off, a few of them very quickly began flashing against the bd cover - but surely that is to expected anyway!?!

    Only thing I’m unsure of is how long this stuff takes to be fully effective???, going off of what’s in dunc’s book it call for water changes after the 3rd/4th day, so I’m guessing it isn’t really fast working - hence the 3-4 day dwell time in adding it and beginning to dial it out via the suggested water changes!?supaverm experiences

    Hopefully it works anyway, and there aren’t any long-term detrimental effects and I can put having fluke troubles behind me🤞


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  27. #18
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai blue harbour's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    In the town with the bent spire
    Posts
    670
    Thanks / Likes
    391
    Just done a few follow up scrapes of some of my fish to see if the supaverm has worked or not, and on the fish i scraped i didn't find anything at all

    Hopefully the same will go for all the others, and I can put flukes firmly behind me now!

 

 

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:29 AM. Online Koi Mag Forum
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.

vBulletin Improved By vBFoster® (Lite Version), © UltimateScheme, Ltd.