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  1. #1

    disease identification

    I have lost a couple of fish recently, all with similar symptoms small ulcers and reddened fins. The water parameters are very good all within tolerance. Attached are photos of todays fatality. No new stock has been added recently. I do not wish to treat the water without knowing what's killing the fish. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Gosai Goonerharwood's Avatar
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    Hi and welcome to the forum to help you out better if you tell us your water parameters ,how big your pond is , what filtration your using well then be able to help you better .

    Hope this helps Colin

  3. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai RJW2012's Avatar
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    disease identification

    Looks bacterial to me, possibly Columnaris. When you say ‘in tolerance’ what tolerance are you talking about, or what test kit?

    Rob.


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  4. #4

    parameters

    Quote Originally Posted by RJW2012 View Post
    Looks bacterial to me, possibly Columnaris. When you say ‘in tolerance’ what tolerance are you talking about, or what test kit?

    Rob.


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    regularly checked at my local dealer, ph 8.1 no ammonia, nitrate or nitrite. All water parameters have built in tolerance, that's what I meant. I have found no fungus type growth on any fish so I'm not sure . Pond is 2450 gallons with triple bay filter and nexus.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai RJW2012's Avatar
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    disease identification

    I’d argue photo 2 looks more bacterial (raised cotton wool type growths, brownish in appearance) than an ulcer, could be me though - it’s right in/under the mucus layer (you can see the excess mucus around the wound site).

    Can you do a scrape on any of your other fish?

    Do you not like to test the water parameters yourself, I’m surprised a reputable dealer lets you take a water sample into their premises given the potential cross contamination risk.

    There isn’t really a simple single treatment either; good maintenance of the filters, keeping the water column as clean as possible. When was the last time you gave the multibay a good clean?

    It looks to me that the fish may have been struggling for sometime, its immune system simply gave up. Columnaris will only infect fins, as I understand it, once it actually gets inside the fish body cavity, death occurs quite rapidly afterwards.

    I’ve seen similar symptoms a few years ago; Acriflavine didn’t work with a fish in a friends pond (in QT and heated).

    Rob.


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    Last edited by RJW2012; 14-11-2017 at 08:14 PM. Reason: Added a bit about Acriflavine...

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  8. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai RJW2012's Avatar
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    disease identification

    I’d be interested in Felines view here...


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    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    My view is a full set of water tests and some scrapes of several fish are needed.

    When you've been told your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all zero we instantly know that the test results are not correct. What I mean by this is that nitrate would not be zero in a system where the bio filters are consuming ammonia and nitrite. I would get hold of a decent liquid drop kit asap and test the water yourself.

    I would also check your topup water for chlorine (even if using a dechlorinator unit) with some DPD4 tablets.

    That's the starting point really- where to go from there will depend what you find. Do you have a QT? Can you heat either the pond or a QT if needed for treatments?
    Last edited by Feline; 14-11-2017 at 04:25 PM.

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  12. #8
    Just my two cents and it kind of rolls on from what feline said
    im running a nexus and in my honest opinion they are a nitrate powerhouse so for your dealer to say your nitrate is zero, I would order a kit and do it yourself, plus it helps you get to know your pond then, I would also recommend a kh test aswell

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  14. #9
    Thanks for the info I'll go back to the drawing board and test my water with the kits I've got and clean the filters again

  15. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    What temperature is the pond at?

    My thoughts are that whilst this could be straight bacterial the best approach is to
    1) check the water
    2) check the gills of a few fish to see that they are nice and pink
    3) take a scrape from a few fish.

    So very much along the lines of what has already been said.

    I suspect that if you have been taking water samples along to the your local dealer and they confirm all is OK then there probably will not be an ammonia / nitrite issue but for sure it is worth double checking with a chlorine test as well.

    Good luck

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  17. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion voodoo_15_uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjl3273 View Post
    regularly checked at my local dealer, ph 8.1 no ammonia, nitrate or nitrite. All water parameters have built in tolerance, that's what I meant. I have found no fungus type growth on any fish so I'm not sure . Pond is 2450 gallons with triple bay filter and nexus.
    I doubt you nitrate is 0, I would be testing the water myself rather than taking it to someone.
    How often does it get tested.

    I agree it looks bacterial but this may be secondary to a parasite problem or maintenance.


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  19. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai Designer1's Avatar
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    I've had a year of it with my QT tank in terms of a bacterial issues. Not that it makes me a =n expert - far from it.

    In the end, i spoke to the very accommodating Paula Reynolds, who offered clear and accurate advice.

    Once you have eliminated all the other possibilities (which you need to do quickly) and if you still arrive at : bacterial infection, you need to lower the bacteria levels with something like Chloramine T.

    As said above, once the bacteria gets inside the fish, its a very different story. Once inside the fish, no matter what you do to the water it will remain in the fish, until it either kills the fish, or the fish's immune system overcomes it or manages it. The former is usually the case. Antibiotic injections are often recommended, but a vet would advise/prescribe accordingly.

    Salt gradually to 0.3% then 0.6% will help the situation, and heat if possible.

    That's my take on it, basically repeating what ive been told or learnt as a result of my issues.
    I wish you luck with it, and hope your able to prevent any more losses.
    Its a hole in the ground where I throw my money!

 

 

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