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Thread: coppens Midori

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai rolo's Avatar
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    coppens Midori

    hi all
    im about to order my next batch of food and come across coppens midori cant find anything about it other than its mainly insect based.
    or should i stick to meals worms as a treat.

    regards
    rolo



  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by rolo View Post
    hi all
    im about to order my next batch of food and come across coppens midori cant find anything about it other than its mainly insect based.
    or should i stick to meals worms as a treat.

    regards
    rolo
    Hi Rolo. It's not meant to be for a treat. With everyone going green etc. They have swapped out the white fish meal in the food and replaced it with insect meal instead.

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai rolo's Avatar
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    thanks for quick reply.
    regardless of green being the in thing has anyone tried it any results good or bad.
    i could always mix it with another food seems high in fibre low in fat ?

    keith

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    If the insectmeal is black soldierfly larvae (Almost certainly)
    It has been shown in a scientific paper to cause inflammation of the gut and digestion issues in common carp.

    I'm not a fan if any terrestrial insect based food as the amino acid profile is also not ideal for fish.

    A few mealworm for a treat is fine but not to make up a significant part of the diet.

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    Senior Member Rank = Gosai KiOgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    If the insectmeal is black soldierfly larvae (Almost certainly)
    It has been shown in a scientific paper to cause inflammation of the gut and digestion issues in common carp.
    That's worrying I've been feeding mine Calci Worms for about a year as part of their regular diet they love them

    Can you say where the above research comes from?

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai rolo's Avatar
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    well that's that sorted no midori. I'll stick to mixing two coppens feeds together and meal worms and bread as treats.

    keith

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiOgon View Post
    That's worrying I've been feeding mine Calci Worms for about a year as part of their regular diet they love them

    Can you say where the above research comes from?
    On hols ATM,
    I'll dig out the info on my PC when I'm back home as I read it a while ago...

    But it was specific about black soldierfly larvae meal.
    Last edited by davethefish1; 14-07-2023 at 09:38 AM.

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolo View Post
    well that's that sorted no midori. I'll stick to mixing two coppens feeds together and meal worms and bread as treats.

    keith
    Might be worth an email to see if they will part with the info on what insect meal it is....

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    Senior Member Rank = Gosai KiOgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    On hols ATM,
    I'll dig out the info on my PC when I'm back home as I read it a while ago...

    But it was specific about black soldierfly larvae meal.
    Cheers Dave,

    Yes black soldierfly larvae is sold as calci worms; https://www.gardenwildlifedirect.co.uk/calci-worms.html

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai rolo's Avatar
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    is meal worms and calci worms the same?

    keith

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    Senior Member Rank = Gosai KiOgon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolo View Post
    is meal worms and calci worms the same?

    keith
    No:- https://www.google.com/search?client...+v+calci+worms

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiOgon View Post
    That's worrying I've been feeding mine Calci Worms for about a year as part of their regular diet they love them

    Can you say where the above research comes from?
    heres the paper,
    a bit heavy reading and though they did find good growth rates in carp (for farmed fish)
    studies also found some liver damage and intestinal inflammation and injury. (4.2)

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...52513421001538

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    Senior Member Rank = Gosai KiOgon's Avatar
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    Thanks Dave, it looks like heavy going, I'll try to get through that, cheers - hope the hols were good

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiOgon View Post
    Thanks Dave, it looks like heavy going, I'll try to get through that, cheers - hope the hols were good
    yes mate
    half holiday, half future retirement house hunting...

    liked this one but SSTC
    3 bed detached bungalow + 1/3rd acre land... plenty of room for a 10,000 gallon pond...












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  23. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    heres the paper,
    a bit heavy reading and though they did find good growth rates in carp (for farmed fish)
    studies also found some liver damage and intestinal inflammation and injury. (4.2)

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...52513421001538
    Hi Dave. Thats such a shame, I feed topkoi great growth and very little waste.Good price, too good to be true then.

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog1 View Post
    Hi Dave. Thats such a shame, I feed topkoi great growth and very little waste.Good price, too good to be true then.
    that depends on if they do use black soldier fly larvae, there are mealworms and other insect feeds it could be, i'm just more sceptical of large corporations lately
    and how much BSFP in inclusion, rates in the test were 9g/kg
    but they also said in the paper that defatted black soldier fly larvae reduced the amount of intestine inflammation....

    there are positives and negatives to it's use.
    i don't suppose fish farmers give a monkeys if the food causes health problems if the fish are for the table anyway, plus it is cheaper and as a bonus it is more 'sustainable'
    what is sustainability anyway? the ability to farm it for low cost (black soldier fly larvae still needs intensive lighting and heating to 'farm')?
    the fact you can do it cheaply using less acreage of land per kg of protein vs a cow?
    whats wrong with farming fish to make fishmeal?...surely a more 'natural' method of producing fish food?

    but anyway i personally wouldn't choose to take the risk of feeding something shown to cause potential problems.
    and coppens are too secretive about actual ingredients, does it state what the insect inclusion rate is? and what insect on the label?
    as i like top koi too, but then noticed the change in ingredients which was only a couple of years ago....
    Last edited by davethefish1; 16-07-2023 at 03:39 PM.

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  27. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    that depends on if they do use black soldier fly larvae, there are mealworms and other insect feeds it could be, i'm just more sceptical of large corporations lately
    and how much BSFP in inclusion, rates in the test were 9g/kg
    but they also said in the paper that defatted black soldier fly larvae reduced the amount of intesine inflammation....

    there are positives and negatives to it's use.
    i don't suppose fish farmers give a monkeys if the food causes health problems if the fish are for the table anyway, plus it is cheaper and as a bonus it is more 'sustainable'
    what is sustainability anyway? the ability to farm it for low cost (black soldier fly larvae still needs intensive lighting and heating to 'farm')?
    the fact you can do it cheaply using less acreage of land per kg of protein vs a cow?
    whats wrong with farming fish to make fishmeal?...surely a more 'natural' method of producing fish food?

    but anyway i personally wouldn't choose to take the risk of feeding something shown to cause potential problems.
    and coppens are too secretive about actual ingredients, does it state what the insect inclusion rate is? and what insect on the label?
    as i like top koi too, but then noticed the change in ingredients which was only a couple of years ago....
    Hi Dave / Thanks for the Great reply.Yes on the bag and website it only states flavoured with insect meal. That to me speaks volumes.Very sneaky and misleading.

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog1 View Post
    Hi Dave / Thanks for the Great reply.Yes on the bag and website it only states flavoured with insect meal. That to me speaks volumes.Very sneaky and misleading.
    pity, they could do flavoured with GLM, king prawns, or tiger shrimp
    guess those ingredients are too expensive...

    GLM is about £30 per kg but a great high quality high protein ingredient,
    i used to add to my own boilie base mixes when i used to roll my own...

    shame they don't add it to koi food...?
    Last edited by davethefish1; 16-07-2023 at 05:06 PM.

  30. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by davethefish1 View Post
    pity they could do flavoured with GLM, king prawns, or tiger shrimp
    guess those ingredients are too expensive...

    GLM is about £30 per kg but a great high quality high protein ingredient,
    i used to add to my own boilie base mixes when i used to roll my own...

    shame they don't add it to koi food...?
    Yeah sounds good, I've just sent a email to Alltech coppens. Asking about their protein source.Heard people putting their pellets in orange juice. They said it increased their food intake by double.

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion davethefish1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddog1 View Post
    Yeah sounds good, I've just sent a email to Alltech coppens. Asking about their protein source.Heard people putting their pellets in orange juice. They said it increased their food intake by double.
    i've tried pre soaking them to soften the pellets, and it does allow them to wolf it down quicker... can't be arsed to do that 10 times a day lol

    but observing them eating softened pellets, a lot of waste seems to come out of the gills as they chew them, that i don't see when they eat them fresh and hard.
    so some might be getting wasted straight into the water...

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