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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Natural foods less harmful to water perameters?

    Bio still not kicked in yet but I can see something forming on pond sides, very slimy, the Jap matting bio chamber is changing colour on the outer and inner edges of the mats so hopefully the beginning of something positive, water temp 18 degrees, evo aqua gel going in daily, I wondered if worms and maggots would produce less toxic waste than koi pellets? To help keep ammonia etc levels controlled as best possible? Steve



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  3. #2
    I would think more as they are high in protein

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  5. #3

    Natural foods less harmful to water perameters?

    FYI, there’s a fair few Carp fisheries that have banned the use of maggots now as they’ve caused ammonia problems. That’s obviously in huge quantities however in lakes that a acres in size. I suspect rotting larvae isn’t a good thing in a pond.
    I wouldn’t feed them as a main source of food as they’re not nutritionally balanced. Probably ok as a treat.


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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    I have not fed the fish for over 2 days ammonia is at 1 despite 30% water change yesterday, it was 0.5 this morning, this evening back to 1, filters just not ready yet, going to put a EA pond pure bomb in tomorrow as its supposed to target ammonia and water impurities - not sure how correct that is but its what I have read ? any views or is there a better product that can help neutrilise the ammonia ? all other readings are good, fish when fed were extremely lightly fed and as said nothing at all for 2 days now, only 4 x 12" fish in over 2000 gallons of water.
    Steve.

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  9. #5
    Supplemental filter bacteria is probably a good idea. There are also certain water conditioners sold claiming to break down ammonia and de-toxify nitrite, I have no experience with it though.

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  11. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcarpchaser View Post
    FYI, there’s a fair few Carp fisheries that have banned the use of maggots now as they’ve caused ammonia problems. That’s obviously in huge quantities however in lakes that a acres in size. I suspect rotting larvae isn’t a good thing in a pond.
    I wouldn’t feed them as a main source of food as they’re not nutritionally balanced. Probably ok as a treat.


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    About 3 years ago I threw a load of maggots in my pond. What a mess. My fish never touched them.
    It took days and days to get them out.
    Yet I throw worms. Honeyed ham. They love that. But maggots they did nt want to know.
    Mine must be picky sods. Haha

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  13. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    I have not fed the fish for over 2 days ammonia is at 1 despite 30% water change yesterday, it was 0.5 this morning, this evening back to 1, filters just not ready yet, going to put a EA pond pure bomb in tomorrow as its supposed to target ammonia and water impurities - not sure how correct that is but its what I have read ? any views or is there a better product that can help neutrilise the ammonia ? all other readings are good, fish when fed were extremely lightly fed and as said nothing at all for 2 days now, only 4 x 12" fish in over 2000 gallons of water.
    Steve.
    HI mate. I personally don t believe in all these bombs and stuff. Some people say they work and a lot don t. I spent loads on bombs and filter starts. And I feel I just wasted my money.
    On my setup anyway.
    The only way that worked for me was lots of water changes.
    To try and speed things up I even used to piss in my filters. That did nt work either.

    Have you tested your tap hose end for all your tests to make sure your not adding any ammonia. I test my taps once a month
    For all my tests. As well as the pond weekly.
    Just a thought.
    Patience is the word. I know its frustrating.
    I have said this before. My pond took 18 months to mature enough. That I can now test once a week to two weeks.
    Zeolite is supposed to take away ammonia
    And nitrites.
    But in my opinion that's counter productive
    On a new pond as your back to square one.
    Best of luck
    Fred




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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Agree 100% with Fred.

    The other alternative is to fishless cycle some media, or get some mature media from someone else.

    Ammonia shouldn't take too long to sort itself out, mine didn't take long at all. I ran pond for less than a Month (with ammonia added) before adding fish, and after adding fish gradually I never saw a reading other than very slightly above 0 but well below the next level on the chart.

    Nitrite on the other hand.... Total nightmare and took forever.

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  17. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Agree 100% with Fred.

    The other alternative is to fishless cycle some media, or get some mature media from someone else.

    Ammonia shouldn't take too long to sort itself out, mine didn't take long at all. I ran pond for less than a Month (with ammonia added) before adding fish, and after adding fish gradually I never saw a reading other than very slightly above 0 but well below the next level on the chart.

    Nitrite on the other hand.... Total nightmare and took forever.
    Where did you get the ammonia to add it?

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Fishplanetkoi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    I have not fed the fish for over 2 days ammonia is at 1 despite 30% water change yesterday, it was 0.5 this morning, this evening back to 1, filters just not ready yet, going to put a EA pond pure bomb in tomorrow as its supposed to target ammonia and water impurities - not sure how correct that is but its what I have read ? any views or is there a better product that can help neutrilise the ammonia ? all other readings are good, fish when fed were extremely lightly fed and as said nothing at all for 2 days now, only 4 x 12" fish in over 2000 gallons of water.
    Steve.
    Just a thought, but when you do a 30% water change, are you using ST or going through a carbon filter?

    4 x 12 inch fish not being fed much should not have that effect on ammonia in over 2000 gallons.

    What I am trying to say is, are you sure chlorine is not the problem, wiping out the filter bio?

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  20. #11
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai Scamp's Avatar
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    Hi this is what I used, for my fish less cycling:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kleen-Off-5...39382429&psc=1

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  22. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Agree 100% with Fred.

    The other alternative is to fishless cycle some media, or get some mature media from someone else.

    Ammonia shouldn't take too long to sort itself out, mine didn't take long at all. I ran pond for less than a Month (with ammonia added) before adding fish, and after adding fish gradually I never saw a reading other than very slightly above 0 but well below the next level on the chart.

    Nitrite on the other hand.... Total nightmare and took forever.
    Same here. Nitrite. But I had 50 fish in there lol. Had no choice as my holding tank got ripped. No where to put them. NPS. Was like a nuglear bomb. And I had some largish fish in there.
    I was doing tons of water changes.
    Great learning curve.
    But I would nt want to go through that again.
    I even had mature media.
    That's when I learned that the whole pond has to mature. Not just filters. And that all these starts and bombs did nt do anything for my pond.
    But everyone to there own.
    And good luck to them if they work.
    I would fish less cycle. Now if I had to do it all again
    Fred

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  24. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishplanetkoi View Post
    Just a thought, but when you do a 30% water change, are you using ST or going through a carbon filter?

    4 x 12 inch fish not being fed much should not have that effect on ammonia in over 2000 gallons.

    What I am trying to say is, are you sure chlorine is not the problem, wiping out the filter bio?
    Hi mate, I have a 3 stage dechlorinator, I also have a bottle of chlor go to hand and ST and also test regularly with DPD4 tabs just for peace of mind.... so confident there is no chlorine in pond, appreciate your thoughts though.... Cheer Steve.

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  26. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion smartin's Avatar
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    Yes i would of done the same in hindsight - fishless cycling and should of listened but fell in the trap of getting some fish in my pond as i could not wait so now looking after these four fellas, anyhow it is what it is so fingers crossed they will survive and their waste etc will activate the filters, I now have good bottom and side coverage of slime / black and green motley stuff and weed stubble appearing so the pond is changing from clean black sides, I cleaned the window this morning and man that was green as grass...….rgds Steve.

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  28. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartin View Post
    Yes i would of done the same in hindsight - fishless cycling and should of listened but fell in the trap of getting some fish in my pond as i could not wait so now looking after these four fellas, anyhow it is what it is so fingers crossed they will survive and their waste etc will activate the filters, I now have good bottom and side coverage of slime / black and green motley stuff and weed stubble appearing so the pond is changing from clean black sides, I cleaned the window this morning and man that was green as grass...….rgds Steve.
    When you get the green Steve that is one of the signs mate.
    The advice I gave binary was to add a little bit more feed. Because his pond and filters is handling his ammonia better. On the ammonia side. His problem was no nitrite.
    And nitrate. So told him to put a little more feed in. But watch his ammonia like an hawk. In case of a spike.
    And experiment a bit. But be very careful.
    In my case on my pond and qt grow on.
    It was nitrite and not ammonia.
    I was getting some times 2 to 4ppm on mine. And that needed sometimes a 30% water change. To get it to 1ppm.
    Once I changed 50% of water. And stopped feeding for a week.

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  29. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddyboy View Post
    HI mate. I personally don t believe in all these bombs and stuff. Some people say they work and a lot don t. I spent loads on bombs and filter starts. And I feel I just wasted my money.
    On my setup anyway.
    The only way that worked for me was lots of water changes.
    To try and speed things up I even used to piss in my filters. That did nt work either.

    Have you tested your tap hose end for all your tests to make sure your not adding any ammonia. I test my taps once a month
    For all my tests. As well as the pond weekly.
    Just a thought.
    Patience is the word. I know its frustrating.
    I have said this before. My pond took 18 months to mature enough. That I can now test once a week to two weeks.
    Zeolite is supposed to take away ammonia
    And nitrites.
    But in my opinion that's counter productive
    On a new pond as your back to square one.
    Best of luck
    Fred




    Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
    I remember you telling me to ‘put a bit of your own’ in the pond.

    Not sure having a slash in it actually helped but saves trips to the John when I was working outside so it was great advice anyways!!! Natural foods less harmful to water perameters?

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  31. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
    Hi this is what I used, for my fish less cycling:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kleen-Off-5...39382429&psc=1
    I used the exact same product to kick things off when I just had some small Goldies in the pond as nothing was happening on the parameters and therefore bio front.

    A few drops every week moved things along.

    I don’t use it now, no need, but it definitely helped to nudge the bio to start.

  32. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray View Post
    I remember you telling me to ‘put a bit of your own’ in the pond.

    Not sure having a slash in it actually helped but saves trips to the John when I was working outside so it was great advice anyways!!! Natural foods less harmful to water perameters?
    Haha Brill mate. There was a thread on a site. Where about five in the debate swore by it. Another site about 2 1/2years ago.
    So I thought I will give that ago. Waste of time. For me.
    I did nt get an Ammonia spike once. Haha
    When you think about it the pond is one big toilet anyway.
    Save you on the legs though mate haha

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