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Thread: Power supply

  1. #1

    Power supply

    Apologies as I think this has been asked many times
    What size armoured cable to run to pond ?
    Currently running
    1 16000 oase pump
    1 6000 oase pump
    1 ea 70lpm air pump
    1 55 w uv
    I wish to future proof myself as adding lights
    Later
    And just completed making my old pond bigger and adding window currently 20000 l
    Going to be adding another 35000 next summer and changing to a drum
    Iím unsure if 1.5 mm is to light or 2.5 3 core is over the top



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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andywhite01 View Post
    Apologies as I think this has been asked many times
    What size armoured cable to run to pond ?
    Currently running
    1 16000 oase pump
    1 6000 oase pump
    1 ea 70lpm air pump
    1 55 w uv
    I wish to future proof myself as adding lights
    Later
    And just completed making my old pond bigger and adding window currently 20000 l
    Going to be adding another 35000 next summer and changing to a drum
    I’m unsure if 1.5 mm is to light or 2.5 3 core is over the top



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You'll need an electrician to advise you on that one I think, you need to know the wattage of each appliance/accessory and fuse size needed to protect the installation, then you can work out the cabling sizes.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai Ajm's Avatar
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    Frim will be the one to speak to on that mate

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    Johnathan

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  6. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    +1 ... Frimley is the forum spark ...
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    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Frim will know this one, but think I'd personally be going for 10mm SWA, but 6mm will probably be ok.

    Another consideration to bear in mind would be if there's any possibility you'll ever want to heat your pond.

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  10. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Frim will know this one, but think I'd personally be going for 10mm SWA, but 6mm will probably be ok.

    Another consideration to bear in mind would be if there's any possibility you'll ever want to heat your pond.
    Could you take a supply from a socket on the house ring main or would you need to go back to the consumer unit and supply the supply needed from its own fuse, which is what I'm thinking, but be much easier if it could be taken from the houses ring main, from my situation at least?
    Although Im guessing that you'll need to know the rating of the things you wish to run off the supply.

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  12. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    I'm no sparks so don't know what the regs say, and therefore this cannot be construed as advice.

    But I definitely wouldn't be running it from a socket if it's any more than an extension lead.

    My pond electrics come from the shed, which is essentially the same principle as OP running it to his filter house.

    For that I ran 10mm SWA from the CU (with RCD protection), through the side of the house, up the garden (buried) and to the shed. In the Shed I fitted a small CU with a 6 amp breaker for lighting circuits which run off 1.5mm cables and a 20amp breaker for Radial socket circuits which run off 4mm cables. (It would be 2.5mm cables and 30amp breaker if I'd done it as a ring circuit - In view of the fact we are mixing electrics and water I purposely went for a lower 20amp breaker as I felt it a bit safer and never had any false trips, none of the pond stuff I have on permanently come close to using 20 amps combined so if it did trip I'd be certain there's a fault).

    I put (6) double sockets around the shed, 2 of which are on the shed wall which is back to back with the filter pit, then I drilled holes in the shed floating floor and wired all my pond equipment through those holes and refitted the plugs and plugged them all in separately into the plug sockets in the shed.

    Part of the reason I did this was to make it difficult for thieves to steal my stuff....the shed is alarmed but if they do cut a live cable (to steal the appliances) without actually breaking into the shed it will trip the RCD and cause my house alarm to go off.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 09-06-2019 at 11:33 PM.

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  14. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    I'm no sparks so don't know what the regs say, and therefore this cannot be construed as advice.

    But I definitely wouldn't be running it from a socket if it's any more than an extension lead.

    My pond electrics come from the shed, which is essentially the same principle as OP running it to his filter house.

    For that I ran 10mm SWA from the CU (with RCD protection), through the side of the house, up the garden (buried) and to the shed. In the Shed I fitted a small CU with a 6 amp breaker for lighting circuits which run off 1.5 amp cables and a 20amp breaker for Radial socket circuits which run off 4mm cables. (It would be 2.5mm cables and 30amp breaker if I'd done it as a ring circuit).

    I put (6) double sockets around the shed, 2 of which are on the shed wall which is back to back with the filter pit, then I drilled holes in the shed floating floor and wired all my pond equipment through those holes and refitted the plugs and plugged them all in separately into the plug sockets in the shed.

    Part of the reason I did this was to make it difficult for thieves to steal my stuff....the shed is alarmed but if they do cut a live cable (to steal the appliances) without actually breaking into the shed it will trip the RCD and cause my house alarm to go off.
    Thanks for reply. I've armored cable here that I've had for years, its probably oversize, but I need to run it from garage and around back of house and up the garden to where I intend to put filter house, gonna seek some advice on fuse size, as Im gonna run lights, drum pumps uv and also filter for QT etc, I like the idea of a consumer unit in Filter house and wire everything independently from that.

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  16. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Koi View Post
    Could you take a supply from a socket on the house ring main or would you need to go back to the consumer unit and supply the supply needed from its own fuse, which is what I'm thinking, but be much easier if it could be taken from the houses ring main, from my situation at least?
    Although Im guessing that you'll need to know the rating of the things you wish to run off the supply.
    Not a good idea to take anymore than 13A current from a house ring main ... which is approx. 3kW max power consumption ... P = I x V ... P (power in Watts) = I (current in Amps) x V (Volts usually calculated on the safe side as 230 for grid volt drops).

    So 230 x 13 = 2990watts total

    Yes you have to add up the power requirements of the equipment and also the volt drop of the length of cable.

    Anything requiring larger than 2.5mm2 cable would be best taken from the consumer unit with larger cable and an RCBO which is much safer (Frimley's gonna love that after my using a live outside socket cover as a leaky hose holder post) than a fused spur.

    Frimley'll sort ya for anymore detail ... but it would save time if you look at the spec. plates on all your gear and add up the max power requirements (Watts) and add some in for future possible additions ...
    About me: Back by popular demand ...

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  18. #10
    Iím 280 w and will be 50 metres away from consumer unit , going to put it in the ground up to the house and then go up the wall into the roof and then back down to the supply through the cupboard as the supply comes into the front of the house
    Had a new breaker board fitted last year as the kitchen fitters refused to fit the new kitchen
    The electrician said there are spares on the unit and he would do it for me , itís a family friend
    He told me what size cable to run and to let him no when itís In and he would check it all and connect it , but I canít remember what he told me to get Power supply
    Currently running everything on one extension lead Power supply



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  20. #11
    Member Rank = Nisai MARKG71's Avatar
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    The formula for volt drop is mw/a/m x IB x Length / 1000

    mw/a/m for 2.5mm XLPE/SWA cable is 19
    IB - Circuit load, 280w = 1.21 amps.
    Length 50m

    (19 x 1.2 x 50) / 1000 = 1.14 volts which is well below the 11.50 volt maximum.

    I cant calculate the disconnection times and loop impedances without more information,
    but would estimate 2.5mm SWA cable on a 20 Amp RCBO, this would provide additional capacity for the future.
    I would recommend getting a qualified electrician to install this as a dedicated circuit.

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  22. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andywhite01 View Post
    I’m 280 w and will be 50 metres away from consumer unit , going to put it in the ground up to the house and then go up the wall into the roof and then back down to the supply through the cupboard as the supply comes into the front of the house
    Had a new breaker board fitted last year as the kitchen fitters refused to fit the new kitchen
    The electrician said there are spares on the unit and he would do it for me , it’s a family friend
    He told me what size cable to run and to let him no when it’s In and he would check it all and connect it , but I can’t remember what he told me to get Power supply
    Currently running everything on one extension lead Power supply



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    I've a similar and probably worse memory Andy

    Great thread and a lovely setup you've got.

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  24. #13
    Many Thanks for everyoneís help , itís been a labour of love and hate at times Power supply
    Iím looking forward to the day I just walk out and check a few things , feed the fish and sit down and enjoy it Power supply
    Are ponds ever really finished ? My problem is my head fills with ideas quicker than my wallet fills


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  26. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andywhite01 View Post
    Many Thanks for everyone’s help , it’s been a labour of love and hate at times Power supply
    I’m looking forward to the day I just walk out and check a few things , feed the fish and sit down and enjoy it Power supply
    Are ponds ever really finished ? My problem is my head fills with ideas quicker than my wallet fills


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Iam just about to start, got finances ready, my nephew will be available in around 6 weeks, but I've a fella from a pond building company calling round, so I'll see what his costings are and compare probably save a load by doing most of it myself, but I lack time

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  28. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Koi View Post
    Thanks for reply. I've armored cable here that I've had for years, its probably oversize, but I need to run it from garage and around back of house and up the garden to where I intend to put filter house, gonna seek some advice on fuse size, as Im gonna run lights, drum pumps uv and also filter for QT etc, I like the idea of a consumer unit in Filter house and wire everything independently from that.
    This is the CU I put in the garage, and have a similar one in the shed that isn't RCD protected (but the cable feeding it from the house CU is RCD protected).

    s-l1600.jpg

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PROTEK-Ga...6LDgpqxWngpqbA


    When I built the double garage the building regs guy asked who'd be signing off the electrics and I said there won't be any, even though there's no windows and it was pitch black in there.
    It was funny because I was impatient and had already pre-fitted all the electrics, cut trunking to size etc, then on the morning he was due to sign off the completion cert I pulled the supply cable back through the wall into the house.
    Less than 5 minutes after he'd gone I had 50 metres of cable hanging from the ceilings and walls and within an hour I had 2-way switching and all 9 lights fitted, front and rear security lights up and running on the external walls, and all 4 double sockets installed.

    Of course, I had an electrician family member over to test everything and he gave it a thumbs up. Up until that point I was switching the power off when not in the garage just to be on the safe side.

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  30. #16
    Sorry been busy for the last few days so only just seen this thread.

    If you are only going to be running a few bits like mentioned in the earlier reply I would say go 2.5mm 3 core XLPE SWA and stick a 10 MCB or RCBO on it back at the fuse board in the house if the run is about 50 meter and the cable is buried all the way. If you want a 20 amp supply you will need to go for 4mm 3 core XLPE SWA and a 30 amp supply you will need to go for a 6mm 3 core XLPE SWA.

    XLPE SWA has a slightly higher current carrying capacity that standard PVC SWA and is more common in electrical wholesalers now that PVC SWA.

    If you are only going for the 10 amp supply then you could feed all the sockets and then use a switch fused spur to control the lights and just make sure you fit a 3 amp or 5 amp fuse in it.

    If you are going for the 20 or 30 amp supply then you'd be better off fitting a small garage style fuse board and having the sockets and lights on their own circuits.

    If the supply feeding the SWA is already RCD protected then it only needs to be connected via an MCB as long as the RCD is rated at 30mA.

    Depending how sensitive the kit you are going to be using for your pond is you may require a Surge Protection Device or SPD.

    If your switches, spurs, sockets, lights etc are within 3m of water then make sure you use water proof ones.

    Please note - any electrical work should be carried out by an electrically trained competent person who is familiar with the latest regs.

    The cable sizing I have recommended is going on a run of 50m and is buried in the ground as much as possible. Ideally it should be buried at a depth of 2ft or 600mm with warning tape above it at a depth of about 1ft or 300mm.

    Any questions just ask OK.

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  32. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by MARKG71 View Post
    The formula for volt drop is mw/a/m x IB x Length / 1000

    mw/a/m for 2.5mm XLPE/SWA cable is 19
    IB - Circuit load, 280w = 1.21 amps.
    Length 50m

    (19 x 1.2 x 50) / 1000 = 1.14 volts which is well below the 11.50 volt maximum.

    I cant calculate the disconnection times and loop impedances without more information,
    but would estimate 2.5mm SWA cable on a 20 Amp RCBO, this would provide additional capacity for the future.
    I would recommend getting a qualified electrician to install this as a dedicated circuit.
    Yes but what about the correction factors like how the cable's run, is it buried, surface mounted, in trunking etc, is it grouped together with other cables, what ambient temperature will it be used in etc etc.

    I wouldn't use 2.5mm on a 20 amp circuit on that length of run even though an XLPE SWA is capable of taking 20 amps as I think you'll find your volt drop will be way too high once you add the correction factors.

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  34. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    Not a good idea to take anymore than 13A current from a house ring main ... which is approx. 3kW max power consumption ... P = I x V ... P (power in Watts) = I (current in Amps) x V (Volts usually calculated on the safe side as 230 for grid volt drops).

    So 230 x 13 = 2990watts total

    Yes you have to add up the power requirements of the equipment and also the volt drop of the length of cable.

    Anything requiring larger than 2.5mm2 cable would be best taken from the consumer unit with larger cable and an RCBO which is much safer (Frimley's gonna love that after my using a live outside socket cover as a leaky hose holder post) than a fused spur.

    Frimley'll sort ya for anymore detail ... but it would save time if you look at the spec. plates on all your gear and add up the max power requirements (Watts) and add some in for future possible additions ...
    It's good to see you used the correct voltage Trace - 230 Although most places I go to have got voltages of 240 to 250 and some even higher than that for calculation purposes 230 is the preferred figure and will give the highest figure when working out the ampage for any wattage required.

    I know all about you and Fred and your dodgy electrics and water mixes LOL

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  36. #19
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post

    I know all about you and Fred and your dodgy electrics and water mixes LOL
    The sparks and pops are just so good at night LOL ...






    .... (For anybody who's wondering though I am of course only kidding and in reality take the utmost care when it comes to pond electrics).
    About me: Back by popular demand ...

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  38. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    The sparks and pops are just so good at night LOL ...






    .... (For anybody who's wondering though I am of course only kidding and in reality take the utmost care when it comes to pond electrics).
    It's just the other electrics you take the risks with is it Trace?

    Wellies and Marigolds at the ready is it? Lol Lol

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