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Thread: Power supply
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09-06-2019, 09:08 PM #1
Power supply
Apologies as I think this has been asked many times
What size armoured cable to run to pond ?
Currently running
1 16000 oase pump
1 6000 oase pump
1 ea 70lpm air pump
1 55 w uv
I wish to future proof myself as adding lights
Later
And just completed making my old pond bigger and adding window currently 20000 l
Going to be adding another 35000 next summer and changing to a drum
I’m unsure if 1.5 mm is to light or 2.5 3 core is over the top
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Tom Koi Thanked / Liked this Post
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09-06-2019, 09:29 PM #2
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09-06-2019, 09:42 PM #3
Frim will be the one to speak to on that mate
Sent from my SM-N950F using TapatalkFreddyboy the legend
"we are water keepers first"
Johnathan
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09-06-2019, 09:56 PM #4
+1 ... Frimley is the forum spark ...
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09-06-2019, 10:58 PM #5
Frim will know this one, but think I'd personally be going for 10mm SWA, but 6mm will probably be ok.
Another consideration to bear in mind would be if there's any possibility you'll ever want to heat your pond.
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09-06-2019, 11:08 PM #6
Could you take a supply from a socket on the house ring main or would you need to go back to the consumer unit and supply the supply needed from its own fuse, which is what I'm thinking, but be much easier if it could be taken from the houses ring main, from my situation at least?
Although Im guessing that you'll need to know the rating of the things you wish to run off the supply.
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09-06-2019, 11:25 PM #7
I'm no sparks so don't know what the regs say, and therefore this cannot be construed as advice.
But I definitely wouldn't be running it from a socket if it's any more than an extension lead.
My pond electrics come from the shed, which is essentially the same principle as OP running it to his filter house.
For that I ran 10mm SWA from the CU (with RCD protection), through the side of the house, up the garden (buried) and to the shed. In the Shed I fitted a small CU with a 6 amp breaker for lighting circuits which run off 1.5mm cables and a 20amp breaker for Radial socket circuits which run off 4mm cables. (It would be 2.5mm cables and 30amp breaker if I'd done it as a ring circuit - In view of the fact we are mixing electrics and water I purposely went for a lower 20amp breaker as I felt it a bit safer and never had any false trips, none of the pond stuff I have on permanently come close to using 20 amps combined so if it did trip I'd be certain there's a fault).
I put (6) double sockets around the shed, 2 of which are on the shed wall which is back to back with the filter pit, then I drilled holes in the shed floating floor and wired all my pond equipment through those holes and refitted the plugs and plugged them all in separately into the plug sockets in the shed.
Part of the reason I did this was to make it difficult for thieves to steal my stuff....the shed is alarmed but if they do cut a live cable (to steal the appliances) without actually breaking into the shed it will trip the RCD and cause my house alarm to go off.Last edited by RS2OOO; 09-06-2019 at 11:33 PM.
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09-06-2019, 11:37 PM #8
Thanks for reply. I've armored cable here that I've had for years, its probably oversize, but I need to run it from garage and around back of house and up the garden to where I intend to put filter house, gonna seek some advice on fuse size, as Im gonna run lights, drum pumps uv and also filter for QT etc, I like the idea of a consumer unit in Filter house and wire everything independently from that.
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09-06-2019, 11:38 PM #9
Not a good idea to take anymore than 13A current from a house ring main ... which is approx. 3kW max power consumption ... P = I x V ... P (power in Watts) = I (current in Amps) x V (Volts usually calculated on the safe side as 230 for grid volt drops).
So 230 x 13 = 2990watts total
Yes you have to add up the power requirements of the equipment and also the volt drop of the length of cable.
Anything requiring larger than 2.5mm2 cable would be best taken from the consumer unit with larger cable and an RCBO which is much safer (Frimley's gonna love that after my using a live outside socket cover as a leaky hose holder post) than a fused spur.
Frimley'll sort ya for anymore detail ... but it would save time if you look at the spec. plates on all your gear and add up the max power requirements (Watts) and add some in for future possible additions ...
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10-06-2019, 03:18 PM #10
I’m 280 w and will be 50 metres away from consumer unit , going to put it in the ground up to the house and then go up the wall into the roof and then back down to the supply through the cupboard as the supply comes into the front of the house
Had a new breaker board fitted last year as the kitchen fitters refused to fit the new kitchen
The electrician said there are spares on the unit and he would do it for me , it’s a family friend
He told me what size cable to run and to let him no when it’s In and he would check it all and connect it , but I can’t remember what he told me to get
Currently running everything on one extension lead
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10-06-2019, 04:25 PM #11
The formula for volt drop is mw/a/m x IB x Length / 1000
mw/a/m for 2.5mm XLPE/SWA cable is 19
IB - Circuit load, 280w = 1.21 amps.
Length 50m
(19 x 1.2 x 50) / 1000 = 1.14 volts which is well below the 11.50 volt maximum.
I cant calculate the disconnection times and loop impedances without more information,
but would estimate 2.5mm SWA cable on a 20 Amp RCBO, this would provide additional capacity for the future.
I would recommend getting a qualified electrician to install this as a dedicated circuit.
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10-06-2019, 06:26 PM #12
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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10-06-2019, 07:04 PM #13
Many Thanks for everyone’s help , it’s been a labour of love and hate at times
I’m looking forward to the day I just walk out and check a few things , feed the fish and sit down and enjoy it
Are ponds ever really finished ? My problem is my head fills with ideas quicker than my wallet fills
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10-06-2019, 08:27 PM #14
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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10-06-2019, 11:26 PM #15
This is the CU I put in the garage, and have a similar one in the shed that isn't RCD protected (but the cable feeding it from the house CU is RCD protected).
Attachment 28253
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PROTEK-Ga...6LDgpqxWngpqbA
When I built the double garage the building regs guy asked who'd be signing off the electrics and I said there won't be any, even though there's no windows and it was pitch black in there.
It was funny because I was impatient and had already pre-fitted all the electrics, cut trunking to size etc, then on the morning he was due to sign off the completion cert I pulled the supply cable back through the wall into the house.
Less than 5 minutes after he'd gone I had 50 metres of cable hanging from the ceilings and walls and within an hour I had 2-way switching and all 9 lights fitted, front and rear security lights up and running on the external walls, and all 4 double sockets installed.
Of course, I had an electrician family member over to test everything and he gave it a thumbs up. Up until that point I was switching the power off when not in the garage just to be on the safe side.
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12-06-2019, 05:39 PM #16
Sorry been busy for the last few days so only just seen this thread.
If you are only going to be running a few bits like mentioned in the earlier reply I would say go 2.5mm 3 core XLPE SWA and stick a 10 MCB or RCBO on it back at the fuse board in the house if the run is about 50 meter and the cable is buried all the way. If you want a 20 amp supply you will need to go for 4mm 3 core XLPE SWA and a 30 amp supply you will need to go for a 6mm 3 core XLPE SWA.
XLPE SWA has a slightly higher current carrying capacity that standard PVC SWA and is more common in electrical wholesalers now that PVC SWA.
If you are only going for the 10 amp supply then you could feed all the sockets and then use a switch fused spur to control the lights and just make sure you fit a 3 amp or 5 amp fuse in it.
If you are going for the 20 or 30 amp supply then you'd be better off fitting a small garage style fuse board and having the sockets and lights on their own circuits.
If the supply feeding the SWA is already RCD protected then it only needs to be connected via an MCB as long as the RCD is rated at 30mA.
Depending how sensitive the kit you are going to be using for your pond is you may require a Surge Protection Device or SPD.
If your switches, spurs, sockets, lights etc are within 3m of water then make sure you use water proof ones.
Please note - any electrical work should be carried out by an electrically trained competent person who is familiar with the latest regs.
The cable sizing I have recommended is going on a run of 50m and is buried in the ground as much as possible. Ideally it should be buried at a depth of 2ft or 600mm with warning tape above it at a depth of about 1ft or 300mm.
Any questions just ask OK.
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12-06-2019, 05:52 PM #17
Yes but what about the correction factors like how the cable's run, is it buried, surface mounted, in trunking etc, is it grouped together with other cables, what ambient temperature will it be used in etc etc.
I wouldn't use 2.5mm on a 20 amp circuit on that length of run even though an XLPE SWA is capable of taking 20 amps as I think you'll find your volt drop will be way too high once you add the correction factors.
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freddyboy Thanked / Liked this Post
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12-06-2019, 06:03 PM #18
It's good to see you used the correct voltage Trace - 230 Although most places I go to have got voltages of 240 to 250 and some even higher than that for calculation purposes 230 is the preferred figure and will give the highest figure when working out the ampage for any wattage required.
I know all about you and Fred and your dodgy electrics and water mixes LOL
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15-06-2019, 05:33 PM #19
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15-06-2019, 05:38 PM #20
The Daily pond temp thread
Still at around 17C, know what you mean about getting the covers off though :D it will be really...