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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Kh and fish colour

    How much truth is it in that very soft so kh0 promotes the white in a fish and and hard water brings out the black in a fish

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    Johnathan

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Only know that people like Mike Snaden swear by it.

    Also know that in my really hard water the Sumi on my koi looks very deep and strong but the whites are off white, almost cream coloured, including on koi I bought (from soft water dealers) that had bright white skin which now looks off white

    That's only anecdotal evidence as it could just be in their genes to have turned out like that anyway, but if people with very soft water say the opposite I guess it could indicate evidence.

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  5. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Only know that people like Mike Snaden swear by it.

    Also know that in my really hard water the Sumi on my koi looks very deep and strong but the whites are off white, almost cream coloured, including on koi I bought (from soft water dealers) that had bright white skin which now looks off white

    That's only anecdotal evidence as it could just be in their genes to have turned out like that anyway, but if people with very soft water say the opposite I guess it could indicate evidence.

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    I started a thread about low KH yesterday, but then got concerned about a PH crash, you probably wouldn't know when one. , was coming, mine is 2 and GH same. stuck between a rock and a hard place.

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  7. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    My kh is 0 and my fish have been flashing like mad due to ph drop it was 6.2 so had to dump some buffer in is help kh and ph. I new fish cant remember the name but rs you got it spot on . Has beautiful pure white am hoping if it's right I'll be able to keep it that pure it stands out a mile in the pond

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    Johnathan

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  9. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Koi View Post
    I started a thread about low KH yesterday, but then got concerned about a PH crash, you probably wouldn't know when one. , was coming, mine is 2 and GH same. stuck between a rock and a hard place.
    If you have a ph crash you will know as they will be flashing like mad,I have had one on my q/t and I panicked and rang Manky who put me right.

    Wont go into the details but keeping the kh up keeps the ph.
    So when the kh drops to say 0 then it quickly drags the ph down to dangerous levels,so you need to keep kh up to keep the ph at a good level.
    Not an expert in these levels by any standard but it is what I have learnt from Manky the "water genius".

    Thanks Manky.
    John

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  11. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajm View Post
    My kh is 0 and my fish have been flashing like mad due to ph drop it was 6.2 so had to dump some buffer in is help kh and ph. I new fish cant remember the name but rs you got it spot on . Has beautiful pure white am hoping if it's right I'll be able to keep it that pure it stands out a mile in the pond

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    Yamato Nishiki bred by Kase

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  13. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    If you have a ph crash you will know as they will be flashing like mad,I have had one on my q/t and I panicked and rang Manky who put me right.

    Wont go into the details but keeping the kh up keeps the ph.
    So when the kh drops to say 0 then it quickly drags the ph down to dangerous levels,so you need to keep kh up to keep the ph at a good level.
    Not an expert in these levels by any standard but it is what I have learnt from Manky the "water genius".

    Thanks Manky.
    Thanks John, need a pond before I start to worry, but hopefully that'll get started soon, more than a few people living around me with Koi, just been to see one tonight a chap friendly with my neighbour and he's a member of the West Wales Koi club, so I think I'll join up.

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  15. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Koi View Post
    Thanks John, need a pond before I start to worry, but hopefully that'll get started soon, more than a few people living around me with Koi, just been to see one tonight a chap friendly with my neighbour and he's a member of the West Wales Koi club, so I think I'll join up.
    Good idea that Tom,I have never been a member of a club myself but you can learn and get help there if needed.
    John

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  17. #9
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Super low KH always comes back to Mike Snaden and I've been crucified more than once for daring to question the risk factor .... but IMO if your not a full time koi pro then dicing with waking up one morning to find your entire pond belly up is not worth it.

    Another issue that I have questioned is those who believe that thick pea green soup coloured water is better for skin colour ... you don't get to see them very often but I've been told "it's so much better when you do see them" ... my logical mind still wonders if that might just be because of better colour contrast though.

    IMO as a hobby ponder ... trying to emulate full time pro's just isn't worth the trouble ...

    I shall retreat and take cover now ...

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  19. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion Ajm's Avatar
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    Cheers trace I dont want super low kh to scary to me that just when using bicarb do I aim for 4 5 6 ? . Dont want to loss colour in fish but rather that than loss fish . Haven't got time money or knowledge to do what the pros do ad never sleep again .

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    Johnathan

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  21. #11
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    I'm not getting into advising KH level ... that's your choice ... you've got to weigh up how "sparkly" the skin is compared to a good night's sleep .. you wouldn't believe how much trouble that's caused in the past ... I am just one of the "great unwashed" when it comes to koi here .. I advise and question from my modest general technical knowledge, insatiable curiosity and love of saving money ... which isn't always appreciated by some of the hardcore members ... or ... LOL "koi taxing" sellers and manufacturers ...

    This might help ... Kh & gh

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    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    If you're going to run RO or a skinny KH with soft water then use a pH controller and peristaltic pump to keep the pH steady and stable for you. No loss of sleep required. Before embarking on this just check that all the kit is within your budget. Running a pond this way is not for everyone and it's not cheap.

    It's when people who don't know enough about it start experimenting without the necessary kit that things go wrong. Or more often than not people who didn't even realise their supply was soft so were not looking out for KH at all.

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  25. #13
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    There you go confirmation of what is required for a good night's sleep with low KH ... like I said earlier not for those who can't afford it ...

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  27. #14
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion john1's Avatar
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    Agree with you as above Trace,I have said my kh is around 4 but I would not recommend anyone starting up to keep theirs at that.
    You have to get used to your pond and how much sod bicarb it uses which takes a long time,I dont keep mine at 4 for any reason and it certainly isn't to do with colours it is just they seem happy at that level.

    But what is the "safe level" of kh for koi.
    It seems 7 or 8.
    John

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  29. #15
    Banned Rank = Mature Champion Trace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Agree with you as above Trace,I have said my kh is around 4 but I would not recommend anyone starting up to keep theirs at that.
    You have to get used to your pond and how much sod bicarb it uses which takes a long time,I dont keep mine at 4 for any reason and it certainly isn't to do with colours it is just they seem happy at that level.

    But what is the "safe level" of kh for koi.
    It seems 7 or 8.
    Some would say 3 ... some would say 1.5 ... some people like climbing with ropes ... some people like climbing without ropes ... some don't like to climb ...

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  31. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    If you're going to run RO or a skinny KH with soft water then use a pH controller and peristaltic pump to keep the pH steady and stable for you. No loss of sleep required. Before embarking on this just check that all the kit is within your budget. Running a pond this way is not for everyone and it's not cheap.

    It's when people who don't know enough about it start experimenting without the necessary kit that things go wrong. Or more often than not people who didn't even realise their supply was soft so were not looking out for KH at all.
    Have you got a link of the item, I've had a look but I don't know what Im looking at to know whats what, to be honest

    Thanks

  32. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trace View Post
    Some would say 3 ... some would say 1.5 ... some people like climbing with ropes ... some people like climbing without ropes ... some don't like to climb ...

    You'll never see me climbing ropes or no ropes, I hate heights scares the bejesus out of me and the older I'm getting the worse.

    Love your analogy though

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  34. #18
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Koi View Post
    Have you got a link of the item, I've had a look but I don't know what Im looking at to know whats what, to be honest

    Thanks
    Here is a suitable pH controller and the probe it needs to go with it Eutech PH560 Controller - Water Testing - Absolute Koi
    Darren also sells a peristaltic pump for the bicarb dosing. BlackStone BL7-2 Dosing Pump
    You just need any old food grade plastic container to hold the bicarb solution.

    It's a good idea to phone him and discuss these bits if you're interested in this type of kit. Are you planning to run RO?

  35. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Here is a suitable pH controller and the probe it needs to go with it Eutech PH560 Controller - Water Testing - Absolute Koi
    Darren also sells a peristaltic pump for the bicarb dosing. BlackStone BL7-2 Dosing Pump
    You just need any old food grade plastic container to hold the bicarb solution.

    It's a good idea to phone him and discuss these bits if you're interested in this type of kit. Are you planning to run RO?
    Not sure what an RO is exactly, just interested in stuff that could prevent a PH crash, with my 2 kh & 2 gh, notsure if gh is a concern though.

  36. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Here is a suitable pH controller and the probe it needs to go with it Eutech PH560 Controller - Water Testing - Absolute Koi
    Darren also sells a peristaltic pump for the bicarb dosing. BlackStone BL7-2 Dosing Pump
    You just need any old food grade plastic container to hold the bicarb solution.

    It's a good idea to phone him and discuss these bits if you're interested in this type of kit. Are you planning to run RO?
    700 quid that lot, probably cheaper in the long run than using bicarb everyday, but I don't understand any of it to be honest

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