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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai JimJones's Avatar
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    pull the water or push the water

    hi everyone

    Im upgrading my pond this may and one thing i have been thinking about my current setup and ways to improve it.

    At present i have a dry mounted pump after the last chamber in the multibay.

    I was thinking would be better to put the pump in the last chamber of the multibay connect it to the output pipe and then go from pulling the water out to pushing it out"

    We pumps tend to be more energy efficient and i have the space to put a pump in

    My pipe work is 2 inches from multi back to the return so hopefully that is not an issue and the head height back to the pond is roughly the same height as where the pump is mounted.

    any thoughts would be great

    thanks

    Jim



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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    For no scientific reason I'd probably stick with the set-up you already have.

    You'd probably increase efficiency more by getting a more efficient pump than putting the existing one in the last chamber.

    My old eco "efficient" pump.... 95W, 10,000 LPH

    My new variable pump.... 185W @ 20,000 LPH, but adjust it down to 10,000 LPH and it only uses 70W.

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  5. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai JimJones's Avatar
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    at present I have 2x superfish eco 12k's and its great .

    was looking at superfish pond eco plus 15litres an hour for 135 watts! . ( upping flow rates due to bigger pond and new skimmer to shower being installed).

    sounds good to me

    By changing out my pumps to these I can save 50 watts on my present setup.

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  7. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Someone on here bought the 20k Superfish eco plus and said the flow was really weak.

    They sent it back and bought a Jebao TSP 20000 and said it was loads better and used no more power.

    Think the poster was called markini if you want to do a search.

    From his experience I decided to also buy the Jebao instead, and I'm happy with it.

    Note that the bigger the variable pump, the lower the wattage it uses at lower flows. i.e Running a 20k pump at 10k is more efficient than running a 15k pump at 10k.

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  9. #5
    "Technically" you can only actually push water and not actually pull water. This was what I was told by someone that used to be on here that was far cleverer than I am and when they explained what they meant it made perfect sense. If I can find the reply they gave me I will post it on here as it makes interesting reading.

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  11. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Dry mounted pumps should always be mounted as close to the "source" water as possible using as few restrictions as is feasible. You would seriously damage the efficiency of your pump if you had a long length of 1.5" or even 2" between the pump and the chamber. Conversely if directly attached to the chamber then the pump would be as efficient as if it was sitting in the water.

    Variable pumps like the Jebao running at say 60% power will typically give you excellent efficiency but you do need to consider the other side i.e the work you are getting it to do as well.

    Pumping a longish distance and up 2m I found the Jebao/Pondexpert 30,000 pump did loose out a bit and on full power didn't shift any more than my Blue eco 240 which was using quite a bit less power. Then you need to be getting something considering the price of the blue eco! Pumping on my other circuit with less back flow (30cm head and much shorter run) the cheaper pump pushed considerably more water than the blue eco when both at full power.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  13. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai RoyLittle0's Avatar
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    From my understanding, in order to push water you first have to pull water
    but in order to pull water you then have to push water

    I can't see any difference, provided you have a head/reservoir of water before the pump and its not cavitating then there is no difference you are just moving the pump to a slightly different position, feeding from the same place and feeding to the same place
    4600 Gallon Concrete Block and Fiberglass
    2.1 Meter x 0.71 Infinity Window
    2 x Aerated Bottom Drains and Skimmer
    Filtreau HiFlow 30 Drum Filter
    Bio Chamber - 140 litres K1
    Bakki Shower - 30 KG Sakura Far Infrared Media
    2 x 18,000 lh pumps

    http://www.koiforum.uk/pond-construction-pond-build-diaries/21720-roy-lynns-shiny-pond-day.html

  14. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai JimJones's Avatar
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    will look into that cheers mate

  15. #9
    Senior Member Rank = Sansai JimJones's Avatar
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    So buying a 30k pump and throttling it back to 15k would be a good idea ? obviously got to factor in the increased cost V electricity bill cost over the years assuming it would pay for itself.

  16. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimJones View Post
    So buying a 30k pump and throttling it back to 15k would be a good idea ? obviously got to factor in the increased cost V electricity bill cost over the years assuming it would pay for itself.
    You might also factor in that working it less hard you are likely to get a longer life out of it. Personally I wouldn't buy one if I needed to run it near 100% Mine sounded a bit "strained" above 90%.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

  17. #11
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyLittle0 View Post
    From my understanding, in order to push water you first have to pull water
    but in order to pull water you then have to push water

    I can't see any difference, provided you have a head/reservoir of water before the pump and its not cavitating then there is no difference you are just moving the pump to a slightly different position, feeding from the same place and feeding to the same place
    On the input side you are essentially gravity feeding and as we all know that is better done with 3 or 4" pipe - Your caveat about cavitation is important it is easy to induce it if you restrict the input and it trashes efficiency.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

 

 

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