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Thread: Help Selecting Tosai Showa
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11-06-2019, 06:30 AM #121
Sounds a lot better RS. Swimming about now.
That sounds like a start mate of recovery.
Keep up the good work mate.
Fingers crossed
Fred
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11-06-2019, 07:13 AM #122
Fingers crossed for you Rs and sounding a bit better,heard of io sol a while back I have used Tamodine in the past again just tip on and leave for a few seconds.
It's hard when busy at work sure you will sort it,what size is he?John
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11-06-2019, 08:01 AM #123
32cm.
He was on bottom again this morning and I thought oh no here we go again, put food in and he came up for it. His skin looked a little better too.
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11-06-2019, 08:29 AM #124
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11-06-2019, 10:51 AM #125
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11-06-2019, 11:23 AM #126
Hope he pulls through! Sounds promising
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11-06-2019, 12:11 PM #127
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11-06-2019, 12:28 PM #128
Absolute Koi just said it had been discontinued and replaced with Tamodine which is exactly the same stuff.
But Tamodine appears to be manufactured by Vetark.
Allandale went out of business quite a few years ago by the looks of it.
I'm ordering some today.... Won't enter my card details on work computer or mobile so will order by phone or from PC tonight.
Edit: ordered some from Queni Koi, £12.45 for 100ml.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using TapatalkLast edited by RS2OOO; 11-06-2019 at 12:47 PM.
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11-06-2019, 01:16 PM #129
Will look the ingredients up later and see if they are the same :-)
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11-06-2019, 01:28 PM #130
Iodine and salt I believe.
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11-06-2019, 02:10 PM #131
Yes think that's what the old one had in it, that good as it seems to work really well.
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12-06-2019, 08:22 PM #132
Came home to an email from Queni Koi cancelling the Tamodine order due to no stock and no availability for at least a Week. I've re-ordered elsewhere but won't now receive till Monday.
- Showa is no longer bottom sitting at all.
- He's not fully alert but has started occasionally reacting to bangs and noise i.e when you move pond cover or accidentally knock the (wooden) side of the pond. Doesn't react every time, but there has been no reaction to stimuli at all up till now.
- He's coming up for food each feeding time - not in a hurry and generally towards the end of the feed after the rest have stuffed their faces, but a vast improvement on not coming up at all.
- Dorsal and pelvic fins are still clamped but pectoral fins are not.
The body fungus is no longer retreating but also not getting any worse. With the significant rain the Malachite Green is probably diluted to nothing now. (Pond has been overflowing from rain every day this week, and I've drained approx. 1000 litres and its back overflowing again tonight).
The fins are not improving, Dorsal and Tail are worse but Pectoral fins haven't got any better or worse.
I think now he's not critical / on death's door, it is time to move him to QT without pushing him over the edge.
But I'm not sure about treatment.
Can't use Tamodine till it arrives next week.
I believe the finrot is fungal and not bacterial (MG is good for fungal).
But I also read that despite being anti bacterial, CT can also help against fungus. This would be ideal.
Can anyone confirm that?
I have plugged off a 700 litre section of the pond for QT. This will have an air stone but remain unfiltered. I will do 75% water change daily using pond water.
Main question is whether CT is definitely the right treatment here in view of the fungus?
What dosage of CT under these circumstances (8.2 PH and very hard water)?
Appreciate Davej already suggested CT in passing, but any further specifics about whether it will deal with fungus would be appreciated.
I don't want to add salt due to the daily water changes requiring vast amounts to be added every day, and the risk of getting calculations wrong (no salinity meter).
Cheers.
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12-06-2019, 10:23 PM #133
Glad it's on the mend sounds alot more positive.
A big part of quarantine is to increase heat as well as treatment, if you just section off part of the pond you can't achieve this and increase stress on the koi.
Think I would redose with the mg or ct just to take the pressure off the koi and not worry about a quarantine to much.
The koi is improving treat with the tamodine when you get it.
Hope it works out with what ever you choose
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12-06-2019, 10:24 PM #134
After a significant trauma its not unusual to see over prodocution of mucus, ragged fins and the scabbing over of any wounds. The call on whether these are fungal or not can be difficult.
I don't do a lot of topical work but my go to is roccal to clean and then mercurochrome. For sure you will need to sedate, done once and done properly that provides the cornerstone for healing.
Heat will be the key, magic healing happens at 23-24C.
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12-06-2019, 10:43 PM #135
Thanks gents.
I've totally isolated this section of the pond from the main pond so heating it won't be a problem using submersible heaters.
I like the idea of CT because it only lasts 24 hours which will coincide with daily water changes. Also its cheap.
I try to avoid topical treatment because I'm a nervous wreck administering it, but think its absolutely necessary in this case.
As easy as it would be to treat the entire pond, the rest of the koi are healthy and already had their fair share of fluke and costia treatments this year so I want to avoid putting them through unnecessary treatments.
Would you agree that CT is the right option here and at what dosage?
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12-06-2019, 11:03 PM #136
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12-06-2019, 11:15 PM #137
Thanks Dave.
Also I didn't think about the temp difference of water changes.... Something I'll need to find a solution for. No point putting a filter on it as CT will kill the bio.
I'll do 3 days of CT at ambient temps, daily water changes, then add heater on 3rd day, then a small mature filter on 4th day and no further water changes.
I'm thinking CT dose rate of 5 grams per 1000 gallons.
EDIT: I'm almost certain it is fungal Dave, definitely not mucus like I've seen before. Fluffy Tufts of it from under the edges of the scales, tufts covering the whole area where there are injuries and no scales, and stringy bits coming off the fins. Could put some under the scope to be 100%.Last edited by RS2OOO; 13-06-2019 at 12:21 AM.
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12-06-2019, 11:34 PM #138
Haven't got any to look at the packet but that's the lower dose isn't it rs? Over a few days sounds ok.
Could you give a higher dose the first day then follow with a lower doses.
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12-06-2019, 11:48 PM #139
You are right SIM - I got that dosage from a packet, but thinking about it, last time I dosed at 10 grams per 1000 gallons. The fish didn't react to it at all.
So I will dose at that level as an anti-bacterial.
If it were for parasites dosage would be higher, 20 grams per 1000 gallons.
They are dosages that Gary at Gatwick Koi recommended to wipe slime coat prior to administering a fluke treatment. Obviously for anyone reading this looking for dosages bear in mind PH is an important factor when calculating CT dosage.Last edited by RS2OOO; 12-06-2019 at 11:50 PM.
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12-06-2019, 11:53 PM #140
Yes that sounds better, haven't any here should get some and put it in the cupboard its always useful.
Running heater at low temp?
Covering the pond with polycarb should be enough to stop water temps dipping below 6C for the most...