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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Help Selecting Tosai Showa

    For as long as I can remember I've always wanted to grow on a nice baby Showa, and have never actually owned one pending my knowledge to increase enough to pick a good one. I've now extended the pond and have space for one.

    These are what I've shortlisted to buy, and I'd like some help in choosing one.

    I have 2 favourites in the left picture and also like the one in the right picture. Would like the expert (and non expert) knowledge on here to help me choose which one to buy (unless everyone says they are all bad)....

    Ones on the left are around 30cm Nisai, one on the right is 15cm Tosai. Appreciate its hard to see the fish properly in the left picture and my purchase would of course be subject to seeing it in the flesh.

    Takahashi Showa.jpgShowa Koiwater garden.jpg


    Once bought, I will of course keep the forum updated with progress.



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  3. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Hi Rs

    I have purchased quite a few tosai in my time all to find they have gone to crap, I liked to pile in the feed and they just ended up growing quickly and loosing colour. This was on multiple grades of Fish. I find nisai and sansai are much more stable and significantly less risk . I was immediately drawn to H in the bowl of Showa. The smaller tosai is ok, but I wouldn’t purchase it, especially at that size. The nisai look good, some better than others but H has a big frame in comparison and a large head, not the easyiest to select from a picture of a bowl of fish. Fish A also looks interesting. Hope this helps a bit.

    Thanks Chris


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  5. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    One other thing, when buying really small fish there is the possibility they won’t grow. I’ve had personal experience with this and I know others have, not saying it happens much but just wanted to let you know. Had another look through the pictures and I think H would be my choice but I would want a better picture of A.

    Cheers


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  7. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Thank you Chris.... that is really, really helpful.

    We'll see if there's a few opinions before I commit to sharing my favourites and actually buying one.

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  9. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Very difficult in those pics,do they have a video of them and who is the dealer?
    Agree with Chris a good frame on H,you need a nice broad head and between the eyes in proportion to the rest of its body.
    Personally I like the Tosai,if you imagine it with no black, then it would be a lovely kohaku but with the black on its body and head makes it a showa.
    Could never make a decision on those pics Rs.
    John

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  11. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Very difficult in those pics,do they have a video of them and who is the dealer?
    Agree with Chris a good frame on H,you need a nice broad head and between the eyes in proportion to the rest of its body.
    Personally I like the Tosai,if you imagine it with no black, then it would be a lovely kohaku but with the black on its body and head makes it a showa.
    Could never make a decision on those pics Rs.
    Looks like the nisai are from Gatwick Koi and the tosai is from Koi water garden. From the pictures. Is that sad that I can tell Koi delears apart from their pictures haha.


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  13. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Not sad Chris maybe experience.
    You have bought a few from those dealers in the past.
    John

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Not sad Chris maybe experience.
    You have bought a few from those dealers in the past.
    Yes, that is true haha.


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  17. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Just noticed it says on the bottom of pic 2.
    John

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Just noticed it says on the bottom of pic 2.
    Haha didn’t even see that


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  21. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    No other pics or videos as they've not shipped from Japan yet.

    The frame on the Tosai looks weaker but that could be due to the photo and the colouring on its head which makes it look less broad, plus its only 15cm.

    I bought 3x 8 - 10cm koi (from same spawning) and the smallest and skinniest is now the broadest and overall biggest by a long shot, and the biggest has turned really skinny and his eyes now look too close together. Shame really as he has the better pattern.

    Edit: Fully agree with Chris about some fish not growing. I had 2 fancy goldfish I kept from a spawning in 1999. One died last year and was 3" long including tail, yet its sister from the same spawning, who is still alive, is just short of 12" long including tail. They lived together all their lives in the same environment and same food. That's their mum in my profile picture.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 04-03-2019 at 11:57 AM.

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  23. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Sim's Avatar
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    For me I would look at E or H.
    Like Chris says I just try and buy nisai as most torsai change so much and mainly for the worse.
    I buy the odd one to watch grow but will get ride of them after a year or so.
    I have about five in the pond at the moment that I'm looking to move on.

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  25. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Agree with all above,I have had hundreds of tosai and hardly any have turned out good,if the wallet stretches go for nisai.
    If your not showing at the end of the day it is what pleases you and you like.
    John

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Really appreciate the opinions, especially as I don't think that Tosai is particularly cheap considering its size and the breeder. But there is something about it that keeps me returning to it.... I love the pattern, so possibly hope.

    My favourites are A and E from the Nisai bowl as well as the Tosai in the right picture. H is a beautiful shape but I don't think the colouring will be heavy enough for what I'd like.

    Out of A and E I'm really really struggling to choose, obviously can't see enough of A to make the call.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 04-03-2019 at 01:38 PM.

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  29. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Really appreciate the opinions, especially as I don't think that Tosai is particularly cheap considering its size and the breeder. But there is something about it that keeps me returning to it.... I love the pattern, so possibly hope.

    My favourites are A and E from the Nisai bowl as well as the Tosai in the right picture. H is a beautiful shape but I don't think the colouring will be heavy enough for what I'd like.

    Out of A and E I'm really really struggling to choose, obviously can't see enough of A to make the call.
    It would definitely be A for my taste I have one very similar

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  31. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Think that is very expensive for a tosai @ £195 how much are the others?
    John

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  33. #17
    Senior Member Rank = Kyusai Sim's Avatar
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    I think A may be better if you could get a better look.
    I first looked at E but looking at it the colour in the middle looks a little weak and may break up,

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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Skoosh88's Avatar
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    Not an expert in any stretch of the imagination but I love the pattern on ‘A’ but it would depend on the size and shape of its head which you can’t see. ‘E’ has a good fat head for the body to grow in to


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  37. #19
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Gosai sammy66's Avatar
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    Hi, i like h in the bowl all day.:d:d

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  39. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    You guys are going to make me want to buy both A & E !!!

    And that's exactly where I'll end up when the missus finds out lol.

    Well, I agree with John, that Tosai is too expensive at £195 for a 15cm Koi from a breeder who I don't think particularly specialises in Showa.

    Made a mistake with the size of the Nisai, they are actually 35cm+ and priced at £225, which would be the most I've ever paid for a Koi, but I think that is fair for what I perceive to be quality Koi. They are the first (affordable) Showa I've seen since last year that I really like.

    Due to the quality of the photo, Gary has let me reserve both of them, and as soon as they arrive from Japan I need to go and make a decision as to which one, A or E.

    I'm sure everyone will now come along and say they think H is the best one!!!

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