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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai RS2OOO's Avatar
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    More KHV Outbreaks

    Some more recently imported Koi have been confirmed as having KHV.

    The Dealer in question is one of the few who properly heat ramp Koi over long periods as part of a thorough quarantine regime and thus discovered KHV. But, there are other Dealers with stock bought at the same time and from the same sources (more than 1 source) who do not heat ramp.

    Be careful as I suspect there are more Koi carrying the virus within the Dealer network that are yet to show symptoms.



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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion Ant62's Avatar
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    This should be a warning to people to be extremely careful in what and where they buy from as KHV can wipe out your entire pond......

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai Hawk101's Avatar
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    Is there anywhere that this is officially published naming the breeder and the dealer.
    Nobody would wish KHV on anyone but unless we know exactly where or who to avoid its just guess work.

  5. #4
    I'm not sure I should name the dealer, but to their credit they have posted on Facebook that they have it. They aren't trying to hide it from anyone.

  6. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Fry sinx's Avatar
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    The thing is, you shouldn't be looking to avoid the dealer in this case, it is no secret that it is Gatwick Koi who has found KHV, however they have found it because they quarantine their Koi in a correct manner.

    The people you should be avoiding are the ones who don't quarantine their koi, the ones who get koi in and sell them without the koi every going through any kind of quarantine procedure.

    It is a crying shame that the PKDA fell by the wayside a few years ago, we as customers should vote with our feet and not purchase koi unless they are correctly quarantined, simply put if your dealer is unable to correctly quarantine their fish then you shouldn't be buying from them.

    Gatwick koi deserve everyone's help and support to deal with this, as if they didn't have the quarantine procedure they have in place potentially there would be up to 100 ponds around the country on the receiving end of KHV in the future, even more so if we have another summer similar to the one we have had this past year.

    For those that haven't seen it this is what Gatwick koi have posted on their facebook page

    "Good morning all , this is a post , i always knew i would one day have to write , but dreaded the day it would come , and now that it has , its still not easy to say , but i will ask you to read to the end , and take in all what i say . This morning i received a telephone call from CEFAS , confirming that we have had koi tested positive for KHV in POND Q1 AND Q6 in the forge . All other ponds with koi in , are completely bio secure and unaffected , but cannot be moved , until all fish in those two ponds are put to sleep , and the ponds steralised . All the other ponds are like green houses within the building , so totally un affected . Also the other centre 5 miles away , know as the annexe , is also un affected . So we now have to face the awful task of waiting for cefas to next visit to over see this process . Obviously this will hit us hard , most of you who know us , know we are not rich , we dont have massive savings to fall back on , but we do have a lot of stock that is all paid for , so we hope that we should be able to carry on , it will be a struggle , but fight we will , some one once said its not the man in the fight , its the fight in the man , and god only knows even ill have to dig deep on this one . Theres a few things i have to say , some will like , and some wont ! Firstly , i am over whelmed , by the reaction of my customers , both from the trade and retail , as i read your posts yesterday , i was deeply moved by your promises of continued support , even to the point of moving me to tears . But , ill be honest , promises are one thing , and actions are another , and i couldnt help thinking , are the two going to happen . As i drove home last night from the airport , its suddenly dawned on me , that NOT ONE customer had rung to ask if there fish were involved , not one of my customers asked for details of they why , what and who , in fact the only messages i received from people i deem as customers , were koi sales ! I was shocked , two dealers confirmed they would only buy from me , and some major retail sales of koi . So i first apologise , for even thinking about having doubts about your support ., and i thank you again for that , without you , me and Sue are finished . Now to the bad bit , the only messages asking questions , were from people who dont buy from me including dealers wanting details , so heres my reply to save me time and being rude . Please ask your dealers , your suppliers , your agents .For years you have made money by selling koi , while i have invested mine is the process of quarantine , i am not here to quarantine your fish , or relax your fears . For many years , youve laughed at me , as have your customers , 6 weeks quarantine , blah bah blah , you dont have to heat ramp , i dont need to as i know my breeders , etc etc etc , well heres the news , its not one breeder in Japan thats affected , its more , and yes many of you have koi from those breeders on your website , not laughing now are you ???? I am also not laughing at you either , BUT when i was Chairman of the PKDA, i warned this would come back to the uk to haunt the industry again at some point , so to those who dont have chillers , dont heat the koi , im afraid i have very little sympathy , as to people who buy from people like this . Before any of you decided to say anything about this , in the next week , i will have to put down over 100 koi , and the financial implications are crippling , so please try to understand how Sue and myself are feeling , and you cant blame me for a little bitterness . Back to the positive side , i have proved , although i would rather not have , that heat ramping is the best way forward , some might say ah the odds of finding it , and youve only found it once in so many years of your protocle , theres over 100 customers that this week are are glad we do . So if there is a good side to this , it proves that Paula Reynolds and the PKDA were right in the way we were trying to move the koi industry forward . May be , this will shock a lot more dealers into looking into the way they quarantine , all good and well , may be we may grow stronger from this , only time will tell . For people with koi effected , we will be contacting you over the next few weeks , please bare with us , we have sold a record number of koi , so it couldnt have happened at a worse time . We will of course be offering a replacement , but not to the value of your koi , for more !!!!!!! Its not your fault you have lost your koi , if you would like a refund , then of course we will try our best , but please remember , money will be tight for us for the next month or two .We are not going anywhere , koi is my life , my love , and if im honest , there is no where else for this old KOI KICHI to go , so your stuck with me . In January , if finances allow , i intend to visit to Japan , to see if we are in a position to restock , and to find out any more info we can .

    Gary and Sue ."

  7. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Really sad for him - surely compensation should be coming from the Japanese breeders??
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  9. #7
    I've just found this online - not sure if it's been proved or disproved yet?

    KHV: Koi Herpes Virus. There is hope! Treatments and success stories

    If this is correct it may be the way forward?

  10. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinx View Post
    The thing is, you shouldn't be looking to avoid the dealer in this case, it is no secret that it is Gatwick Koi who has found KHV, however they have found it because they quarantine their Koi in a correct manner.

    The people you should be avoiding are the ones who don't quarantine their koi, the ones who get koi in and sell them without the koi every going through any kind of quarantine procedure.

    It is a crying shame that the PKDA fell by the wayside a few years ago, we as customers should vote with our feet and not purchase koi unless they are correctly quarantined, simply put if your dealer is unable to correctly quarantine their fish then you shouldn't be buying from them.

    Gatwick koi deserve everyone's help and support to deal with this, as if they didn't have the quarantine procedure they have in place potentially there would be up to 100 ponds around the country on the receiving end of KHV in the future, even more so if we have another summer similar to the one we have had this past year.

    For those that haven't seen it this is what Gatwick koi have posted on their facebook page

    "Good morning all , this is a post , i always knew i would one day have to write , but dreaded the day it would come , and now that it has , its still not easy to say , but i will ask you to read to the end , and take in all what i say . This morning i received a telephone call from CEFAS , confirming that we have had koi tested positive for KHV in POND Q1 AND Q6 in the forge . All other ponds with koi in , are completely bio secure and unaffected , but cannot be moved , until all fish in those two ponds are put to sleep , and the ponds steralised . All the other ponds are like green houses within the building , so totally un affected . Also the other centre 5 miles away , know as the annexe , is also un affected . So we now have to face the awful task of waiting for cefas to next visit to over see this process . Obviously this will hit us hard , most of you who know us , know we are not rich , we dont have massive savings to fall back on , but we do have a lot of stock that is all paid for , so we hope that we should be able to carry on , it will be a struggle , but fight we will , some one once said its not the man in the fight , its the fight in the man , and god only knows even ill have to dig deep on this one . Theres a few things i have to say , some will like , and some wont ! Firstly , i am over whelmed , by the reaction of my customers , both from the trade and retail , as i read your posts yesterday , i was deeply moved by your promises of continued support , even to the point of moving me to tears . But , ill be honest , promises are one thing , and actions are another , and i couldnt help thinking , are the two going to happen . As i drove home last night from the airport , its suddenly dawned on me , that NOT ONE customer had rung to ask if there fish were involved , not one of my customers asked for details of they why , what and who , in fact the only messages i received from people i deem as customers , were koi sales ! I was shocked , two dealers confirmed they would only buy from me , and some major retail sales of koi . So i first apologise , for even thinking about having doubts about your support ., and i thank you again for that , without you , me and Sue are finished . Now to the bad bit , the only messages asking questions , were from people who dont buy from me including dealers wanting details , so heres my reply to save me time and being rude . Please ask your dealers , your suppliers , your agents .For years you have made money by selling koi , while i have invested mine is the process of quarantine , i am not here to quarantine your fish , or relax your fears . For many years , youve laughed at me , as have your customers , 6 weeks quarantine , blah bah blah , you dont have to heat ramp , i dont need to as i know my breeders , etc etc etc , well heres the news , its not one breeder in Japan thats affected , its more , and yes many of you have koi from those breeders on your website , not laughing now are you ???? I am also not laughing at you either , BUT when i was Chairman of the PKDA, i warned this would come back to the uk to haunt the industry again at some point , so to those who dont have chillers , dont heat the koi , im afraid i have very little sympathy , as to people who buy from people like this . Before any of you decided to say anything about this , in the next week , i will have to put down over 100 koi , and the financial implications are crippling , so please try to understand how Sue and myself are feeling , and you cant blame me for a little bitterness . Back to the positive side , i have proved , although i would rather not have , that heat ramping is the best way forward , some might say ah the odds of finding it , and youve only found it once in so many years of your protocle , theres over 100 customers that this week are are glad we do . So if there is a good side to this , it proves that Paula Reynolds and the PKDA were right in the way we were trying to move the koi industry forward . May be , this will shock a lot more dealers into looking into the way they quarantine , all good and well , may be we may grow stronger from this , only time will tell . For people with koi effected , we will be contacting you over the next few weeks , please bare with us , we have sold a record number of koi , so it couldnt have happened at a worse time . We will of course be offering a replacement , but not to the value of your koi , for more !!!!!!! Its not your fault you have lost your koi , if you would like a refund , then of course we will try our best , but please remember , money will be tight for us for the next month or two .We are not going anywhere , koi is my life , my love , and if im honest , there is no where else for this old KOI KICHI to go , so your stuck with me . In January , if finances allow , i intend to visit to Japan , to see if we are in a position to restock , and to find out any more info we can .

    Gary and Sue ."
    Yes well said,

    Gary has created this "problem" for himself by providing adequate protection for his customers.

    Respect to him.

    His heat cycling QT regime has proved itself as an effective way to trigger an outbreak in a carrier. Without temperature cycling there is a fair chance the carrier would have remained inactive until conditions were right (temp and stress) to start shedding the virus.

    Only other point is that its not QT itself that Guys should be asking their dealers about, it is easy to get fobbed off with that simple question … but QT including heat cycling...

    Dave

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  12. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post
    I've just found this online - not sure if it's been proved or disproved yet?

    KHV: Koi Herpes Virus. There is hope! Treatments and success stories

    If this is correct it may be the way forward?
    Sorry this is a myth. Whilst high temps can supress the spread of the virus the surviving exposed fish will remain carriers and liable to become active at a later date when conditions were right.

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  14. #10
    So, there are a lot of koi dealers in the UK. Is there a definitive list of dealers whose QT procedures include heat cycling? I suspect not. Would be so useful.

    All the best to Gary and Sue. Their approach has mitigated against what could have been a far worse outcome.

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  16. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Sorry this is a myth. Whilst high temps can supress the spread of the virus the surviving exposed fish will remain carriers and liable to become active at a later date when conditions were right.
    Thought it was a bit too good to be the answer.

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  18. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Some Dealers are quite open and blase about their limited quarantine procedures and in conversation two I've spoken with commended Gary's protocols, but one did go on to say he felt it unnecessary.

    The very first 3 Koi I bought (April 2018) were from a top well known Dealer and they introduced gill flukes to my brand new pond.

    I've only got 10 Koi from 4 different Dealers and this could well be pure coincidence, but the 3 most vibrant, healthy and fastest growing all came from Gatwick Koi. They were cheaper than equivalents from other Dealers too, and in my opinion better quality overall.

    I regularly look at Gatwick Koi's website and am always impressed with what's on offer. If anything, after this KHV outbreak, I feel more encouraged to make him first port of call when it comes to buying Koi, both to support him and the confidence knowing his Koi are properly quarantined. When buying a Koi from him earlier this year he told me I shouldn't be letting him bag it up without requesting to look at the fish from underneath and check the anal area etc. No other Dealer has ever said anything like that to me.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 20-12-2018 at 08:14 PM.

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  20. #13
    If KHV is a virus, surely sooner or later a cure should be possible shouldn't it?

  21. #14
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imc28 View Post
    So, there are a lot of koi dealers in the UK. Is there a definitive list of dealers whose QT procedures include heat cycling? I suspect not. Would be so useful.

    All the best to Gary and Sue. Their approach has mitigated against what could have been a far worse outcome.
    The dealers who were signed up to the PKDA while it still existed are the ones who are heat ramping properly (although worth asking the question whether they still do now the PKDA is gone).

    So sad to hear this news, I really hope Gary and Sue are able to survive this.
    Gary’s story makes me feel that I would like to buy from him in the future as he is clearly very trustworthy. Lets hope enough people take this view to keep his business viable.

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  23. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post
    If KHV is a virus, surely sooner or later a cure should be possible shouldn't it?
    It probably doesn't have the same level of investment that AIDS has had, and look how long its taken to suppress that.

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  25. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Fry sinx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    His heat cycling QT regime has proved itself as an effective way to trigger an outbreak in a carrier. Without temperature cycling there is a fair chance the carrier would have remained inactive until conditions were right (temp and stress) to start shedding the virus.

    Only other point is that its not QT itself that Guys should be asking their dealers about, it is easy to get fobbed off with that simple question … but QT including heat cycling...

    Dave
    Yep, a critically important point, i have never been Gatwick Koi myself but i always get a sense of the pride (rightly so) that Gary takes in his Q/T procedure, my preferred dealer also heat ramps and it is something he would never be reluctant about discussing, in fact he would be more than happy to discuss with anyone who enquired.

    That should be the case for all dealers, there should be a pride that they are supplying the fish in the best possible condition for the customer, if people enquire about a dealers Q/T procedure and they don't like the answers then the best action would be to walk away in my opinion

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  27. #17
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Fry sinx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imc28 View Post
    So, there are a lot of koi dealers in the UK. Is there a definitive list of dealers whose QT procedures include heat cycling? I suspect not. Would be so useful.

    All the best to Gary and Sue. Their approach has mitigated against what could have been a far worse outcome.
    This is what the PKDA was for, which sadly no longer exists...

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  29. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    It probably doesn't have the same level of investment that AIDS has had, and look how long its taken to suppress that.
    Yes I know what you mean but medical advances are getting faster and faster or is that just wishful thinking?

  30. #19
    i once went to a koi dealer and asked what his quarantine procedure was, he said " oh i just make sure i dont stress the fish", so then im waiting for all the other things he should have said, but no that was it, that was his entire quarantine procedure, which effectively meant he did nothing at all. Quite how you don't stress a fish when there are hundreds in a 500 gallon plastic tub I think is impossible in itself, especially when you consider they are never fed, there were fish in the tub with obvious problems ranging from just the odd flash to an actual fish floating dead at the surface...…….needless to say I never went back, and ive found more dealers with similar standards.

    Glad to say Gatwick are in a different league, can anyone remember how he helped Brian out when he lost all his pond to khv a few years back?

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  32. #20
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post
    Yes I know what you mean but medical advances are getting faster and faster or is that just wishful thinking?
    They only seem to be getting faster where money is involved. Invest millions to find a cure for a human disease that nobody else can cure and you'll become a multi billionaire fast.

    Invest millions into finding a cure for KHV and you'll probably be lucky to even get your investment back.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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