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  1. #41
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai Greg S's Avatar
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    Ban - TBH the japanese would probably not bat an eye lid if they stopped selling koi to the UK. My impression is it is far from their major market. They would simply sell elsewhere.
    The only people a ban of that kind would hurt is the UK hobbyist.

    It is up to hobbyists and dealers to follow proper QT protocol - always has been, always will be - or take your collection at your own risk.

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  3. #42
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg S View Post
    Ban - TBH the japanese would probably not bat an eye lid if they stopped selling koi to the UK. My impression is it is far from their major market. They would simply sell elsewhere.
    The only people a ban of that kind would hurt is the UK hobbyist.

    It is up to hobbyists and dealers to follow proper QT protocol - always has been, always will be - or take your collection at your own risk.
    The UK is undoubtedly important to some breeders and some of them would comply - it isn't that hard to do. Besides where one country leads others follow. I have no doubt that many other livestock imports into the UK have to follow protocols and prove they are healthy before transport.
    6000g in ground koi pond
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  5. #43
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pip895 View Post
    The UK is undoubtedly important to some breeders and some of them would comply - it isn't that hard to do. Besides where one country leads others follow. I have no doubt that many other livestock imports into the UK have to follow protocols and prove they are healthy before transport.
    Reality is that UK is a minor player, they wouldn't bat an eye.

    Solution is in our hands; we buy from dealers that heat ramp - we tell those that don't heat ramp that we don't buy from them because of they don't have adequate QT.

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  7. #44
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Been trying to learn some Japanese so I can find my way around Google.jp

    I won't name breeders because I don't fully understand or trust the translations (as all affected breeders are in Niigata prefecture and articles seem to refer to them collectively).

    Since beginnning of December there are news stories confirming KHV relating to 3 separate breeders.

    An interesting one (18th December) refers to a breeder discovering KHV only after being informed of infections in Koi he had exported to an international buyer.

    One refers to a breeder in his 80's (and I think 10 associates) from Uonuma Citywho was arrested for failing to inform authorities that his Koi were KHV positive following complaints from customers of the "carp shop society" who had purchased infected Koi.

    This story is a bit older:


    November 28, 2018 ... Niigata Prefecture announced on 28th that Koi Herpesvirus (KHV) disease was confirmed from a fish breeder raised carp in Nagaoka City . According to the prefecture, during the periodic inspection for the exporters of Nishikigoi, a positive response came from a carp raised by this supplier.

    In another news article (Dated 6th December), they are estimating that 50% of all Carp in natural rivers are carriers of KHV.


    I don't know if these news stories are regular throughout the year, but searching within date ranges brings up more articles in the last Month than any time previously.

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  9. #45
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Was chatting to Gary yesterday about some bits I'm ordering. He seemed quite humbled with the volume of emails received for orders/enquiries etc.

    I mentioned that people here wanted to support him in any way possible and that it wasn't forgotten what he did for a forum member (bryan08 ??) a few years ago before I joined. He fondly remembered that and jokingly asked if it could work the other way round!

    It sounds like he's still too far from the finish line to be sure of survival and risks to the business remain high, to the extent that he might have to put his family savings in which he likened to choosing between his family or the business.

    He's calling CEFAS back in to look at 2 other ponds (in addition to the first 2). There is absolutely no signs of KHV in these other 2 ponds but he has concerns about them and I didn't quite grasp what he said was the basis for these concerns (didn't want to ask him to repeat himself as its tough enough for him already).

    Either way, he is going to destroy all the fish anyway for 100% piece of mind. Sounds like these are both Nisai ponds. I didn't ask if they were already advertised/sold.

    One thing he was absolutely sure of was that no Koi that he had even the slightest suspicions around would ever end up in a customers pond.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 05-01-2019 at 06:42 PM.

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  11. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post

    One refers to a breeder in his 80's (and I think 10 associates) from Uonuma Citywho was arrested for failing to inform authorities that his Koi were KHV positive following complaints from customers of the "carp shop society" who had purchased infected Koi.
    Hello I am a Japanese hobbyist living in the United States.
    Since a lot of the news articles have now been deleted I cannot confirm, but I think the elderly man that was prosecuted(not arrested) was a Koi dealer(not breeder) located in Uonuma, who bought from a breeder in Nagaoka.

    And this is a posting that I made on Koiphen just now.

    There seems to be a misunderstanding that the Japanese government destroys all Koi at a breeder's facility that has been hit with KHV.
    According to Niigata Prefecture's Department of Agriculture, Forestry, and Fisheries...all Koi in a pond with KHV-positive fish are euthanized & the pond sterilized. Koi in other ponds at the breeder's facility are then tested and if any test positive, the same protocol is followed.

    Also exports are stopped from infected breeders as some Countries do not accept Koi from farms that are not certified to be KHV-free.
    These certifications are issued from tests that are conducted 4 times over the course of 2 years.(Not sure why they didn't just say twice a year...and I feel they should be testing 4 times a year)

    Tests are conducted from gill snips of "canary Koi" that have been housed with export Koi for a period of 3 weeks at 68F.


    As of January 7th, 2019 4 cases of KHV have been confirmed at Koi farms in Niigata.

    *The information above is limited to Niigata breeders and I'm not sure of the current protocol or situation of Koi from other regions such as Hiroshima.

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  13. #47
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Just browsing through Koiphen re: Tamatamane's post above and saw someone had posted the following screen grabs that were written by Kim's Koi who is a respected Belgian Koi Dealer.

    Hope they don't mind me re-posting it here.

    The Shiro I bought in the summer came from Hoshikin, but was Tosai and Hoshikins Tosai tested negative. Also it was purchased from Gary so I'm 100% confident its not a carrier, more so with the crazy temps we had this year which saw pond temps rise and fall between 16C and 28C over a few Months.

    KHV1.jpgKHV2.jpgKHV3.jpg


    In case you can't read the text clearly the post (which is from 1 Week ago) claims that infected Koi were confirmed either at or from:
    1) Koda Koi Farm
    2) NNBC
    3) Chogoro
    4) Hoshikin

    A lot of Koi from the bottom 2 are being sold by Dealers here in Britain.


    EDIT: Need to amend this. Went to see Gary today and showed him this thread. He seemed very grateful for the support and kind words. Also noticed him nodding knowingly at some of the comments surrounding other breeders who don't heat ramp.... or possibly even quarantine at all!

    Anyway, at this moment in time, despite what the above screen shots state, Koda have NOT been confirmed with KHV. It is suspected and tests are being carried out, but absolutely no confirmation at this time and there's every chance they don't have it at all.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 12-01-2019 at 07:07 PM.

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  15. #48
    Sad to see that Koi Water Garden ( Malcolm Green ) , has now confirmed that they too have tested positive from there recent Autumn buying trip .
    Looking through the breeders bought from, I’m guessing it’s another that can be attributed to Chogoro
    The fact that these guys get nothing back compensation wise from Japan is shocking

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  17. #49
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackletart Blue View Post
    The fact that these guys get nothing back compensation wise from Japan is shocking
    Practically criminal imo
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  19. #50
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Sacramento Koi have just uploaded a video about their management of the recent KHV outbreak.

    What they are saying is different to what I've previously read, and they are happy to let customers keep koi that were sold from vats containing KHV infected Koi.

    Any opinions?





    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avHTPO3Ce68

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  21. #51
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Sim's Avatar
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    Think if I was a customer I would be getting my koi tested, i would need to know.
    Not sure if they heat ramp either, just mention holding them at a high temp for a period of time.

  22. #52
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sim View Post
    Think if I was a customer I would be getting my koi tested, i would need to know.
    Not sure if they heat ramp either, just mention holding them at a high temp for a period of time.
    Holding them at a high temp for a period of time was what was recommended to them AFTER the outbreak!

    The outbreak was identified after the fish had been quarantined and released for sale.

  23. #53
    Good job not many members on here are likely to be getting koi from Uncle Sam. Glad to see they’re trying to recompense their affected customers though. I wonder if that would be the same case over here?


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  24. #54
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    I would guess that the script has been carefully sculptured by the Insurer's lawyers.

    My take is that if there is a risk then all Koi should have been recalled.

    Think there was mention of only 6 customers fish...…. so far... …

    May be I am taking the whole thing out of context but it seems the customers are being used as Guinea pigs?

    Dave

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  26. #55
    I would think that they’re cacking themselves given the septics love of a compo claim.


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  28. #56
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai RS2OOO's Avatar
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    To summarise...

    They've had 6 confirmed cases in customers ponds, but "not near the number we'd feared".

    They were advised the only way to accurately check for the virus would be to heat for 6 weeks but, for obvious reasons, have not asked their customers to do the same.

    Instead they are sending PCR test kits out to all customers (approx. £1200 for 150 tests is my guess) who purchased from the affected vats and advising them only to test if they have fish losses that displayed KHV symptoms between now and the middle of summer, i.e mid August. After this date there will be no cover.

    So if you were a customer and you had a Koi from an infected VAT in your pond, would you be happy with the above?

    Would you sit back and hope, or would you take some kind of action?

    I don't know what I'd do, hence it'd be interesting to see others opinions.

    We probably all have Koi from farms that have had KHV infections in the same year that our Koi were sold. The farms don't seem to have any form of bio-security from one pond/vat to another, and going by youtube videos Koi are moved around a lot within the facilities.

    One of my Koi came from a farm 6 Months prior to a publicised outbreak at that same farm. I feel quite comfortable with it bearing in mind our ponds quickly went from 16 to knocking on 30 degrees last summer and nobody on this forum lost fish due to KHV.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 17-06-2019 at 08:22 PM.

  29. #57
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Hi

    I don't know the full details but if there were risk I wouldn't take it, I have been to a fair few ponds that have suffered KHV outbreaks and it isn't nice..

    Humm - Taking a fish much beyond 26C, certainly to 30C is a way of depressing KHV, in the short term at least,.. when heat cylcling its important not to over cook the fish. I think that if you were potentially at risk your supplying dealer would be able to give you some assurance on the timelines?

    D

  30. #58
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Hi

    Humm - Taking a fish much beyond 26C, certainly to 30C is a way of depressing KHV, in the short term at least,.. when heat cylcling its important not to over cook the fish. I think that if you were potentially at risk your supplying dealer would be able to give you some assurance on the timelines?

    D
    We had little choice last summer with the high temps, my thinking surrounded the temperature swings in May and June before hitting close to 30C later on so those swings may have given KHV a good opportunity if it was there.

    I'm 100% comfortable there's miniscule risk with my Koi. The supplying dealer (who heat ramps) sold a large number of Koi from this breeder between May and August, then in a later November/December shipment KHV was found.

    My point being many of us would have bought Koi last summer originating from breeders who confirmed KHV outbreaks in the latter part of the year but none of us would know whether our Koi shared the same water/vats/equipment to those later found to be infected. The Hows, whys and whens will forever be unknown.

  31. #59
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai blue harbour's Avatar
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    Saw the sacramento koi vid on Youtube myself last night and wondered if any of you guys would have also seen it too.

    seems like there are a few dealers that have been effected with batches recently.

    There ought to be some sort of insurance/compensation system in-place if buyers are caught out by this, Would hate to think how much money could potentialy get lost if you (as a dealer) did get stung and end up with a batch of infected fish, let alone the end buyer!!!

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  33. #60
    Senior Member Rank = Jussai RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Imagine if you were a dealer without heat ramping facilities and you'd sold fish from a farm later found to have KHV.

    You'd be crapping yourself.

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