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  1. #21
    {QUOTE}Glad to say Gatwick are in a different league, can anyone remember how he helped Brian out when he lost all his pond to khv a few years back?[/QUOTE]

    Well said Familyman, yes I remember, and each and everyone on here that does, should go to Gatwick Koi to purchase food or anything, and if you can't, then buy from them on line, to keep them solvent until they are through this horrible problem.

  2. #22
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post
    If KHV is a virus, surely sooner or later a cure should be possible shouldn't it?
    You mean like the common cold or flu virus(es)?
    Remember that KHV does not affect humans or any of the commercial food producing types of fish. As such investment is minimal.

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  4. #23
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    A vaccine that doesn't have the issues that stop the existing one being accepted - then make it compulsory for all imported fish - would seem the best solution. I suspect though some Japanese breeders would still oppose it. - especially if it originated in Israel!
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  6. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    You mean like the common cold or flu virus(es)?
    Remember that KHV does not affect humans or any of the commercial food producing types of fish. As such investment is minimal.
    I get what you are saying Feline. No vaccine yet for the common cold but there are for the flu although the flu changes every year or so with each different strain of it doesn't it? And it is not like you can just chuck in some lemsips and strepsils into your pond is it?

    Development costs money.

  7. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Fishplanetkoi View Post
    {QUOTE}Glad to say Gatwick are in a different league, can anyone remember how he helped Brian out when he lost all his pond to khv a few years back?
    Well said Familyman, yes I remember, and each and everyone on here that does, should go to Gatwick Koi to purchase food or anything, and if you can't, then buy from them on line, to keep them solvent until they are through this horrible problem.[/QUOTE]

    I had a similar idea to that.

    Not sure of the mechanics of it but was thinking about a collection and charitable donation of some kind. Gary and Sue sound like they need a little bit of help at the moment. So may be if a thread could be started with the option to chip in a few quid each it would soon add up to a reasonable figure. The only thing that I could see being a bit of a problem is how do you get past the tax and NI on the money they get from the donations as it will be classed as income won't it? I know you only have to pay tax etc on your profit. Or how about it being a loan of some kind?

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  9. #26
    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion Ant62's Avatar
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    Somebody reputable on here use the send money to a friend section on paypal.....

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  11. #27
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    My thoughts are that we know Gary heat ramps and has gone public. Gary hasn't mentioned which breeders are involved. But it has too be asked how many other dealers in the UK have bought stock from the same breeders during the same period. At a guess autumn harvests in Japan and arn't heat ramping or sitting on there hands hoping that they will be lucky. Making the rest of the UK pond owners a ticking time bomb.

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  13. #28
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    The best way of supporting Gary is to commit yourself to only buying Koi from dealers that operate a full heat ramped quarantine process.

    It is something he has worked passionately to achieve for many years.

    Koikeepers can influence change but whilst demand exists for koi that haven't been heat ramped as part of the QT, those dealers who don't, will have no incentive to change.

    There are considerable overheads associated with doing "proper" QT as well as the risk that by doing it right a dealer will induce KHV during the QT. Why should they change if they can get away with palming off the risk to you - the customer!
    .

  14. #29
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasec View Post
    My thoughts are that we know Gary heat ramps and has gone public. Gary hasn't mentioned which breeders are involved. But it has too be asked how many other dealers in the UK have bought stock from the same breeders during the same period. At a guess autumn harvests in Japan and arn't heat ramping or sitting on there hands hoping that they will be lucky. Making the rest of the UK pond owners a ticking time bomb.
    Yep . And because Gary operates two separate decently segregated and biosecure QT locations remote from his shop he was able to contain the outbreak. Now just consider the situation at some dealers where fish are moved in to their main "show" ponds within weeks of arrival.

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  16. #30
    The fact that Gary has found KHV in his completely off site and biosecure quarantine facilities is bad and expensive news for him but, if you look at it positively, itís actually good news for the hobby. It has proved the value of the heat ramp procedure he does BEFORE allowing any new koi into his sales premisesand this will give potential customers the confidence that they can buy from him without risk.

  17. #31
    it would be ironic If one of the very few dealers that does proper quarantine for all of our benefits, ends up forced out of business because his procedure worked, and then all the people he was trying to help, refuse to buy from him anymore.
    I think the best way to show support is to buy anything we need in future, from him.

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  19. #32
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai RS2OOO's Avatar
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    I've just emailed a small shopping list over to Gary. Maybe £150 worth in total. I guess if a dozen people requiring bits did the same it would soon add up.

  20. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by pip895 View Post
    A vaccine that doesn't have the issues that stop the existing one being accepted - then make it compulsory for all imported fish - would seem the best solution. I suspect though some Japanese breeders would still oppose it. - especially if it originated in Israel!
    Who are you going to order to pay for the research, developing and licencing costs of the new vaccine?
    The existing KHV ‘vaccine’ failed to get a oroduct licence for use in europe because it couldnt pass the safety and efficacy tests. It costs many hundreds of thousands if pounds to develop these things, and sometimes you even spend that money to end uo with no saleable product at the end if it.

    There is nobody in the UK making sufficient money from koi or carp to justify that kind of speculative outlay. You could argue that the Japanese are the ones making the biggest wads of cash, but it is spread over many many farms some them very small. Unless sales abroad of Japanese fish was severely hit across the board, they are IMO highly unlikely to look at this as a viable option given the major problems the Israeil vaccine has had.

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  22. #34
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Am I right in saying that it is illegal for koi to be imported into Australia due to disease risks?

    If KHV becomes a major problem here could similar bans be applied? Is that threat enough to convince the Japanese to create an approved compulsory vaccine?

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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  24. #35
    I've just e-mailed Gary to offer a 'deposit' on a fish.

    they've got my 100% support, and i'd be proud to have (more) of their fish in my puddle.


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  26. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Am I right in saying that it is illegal for koi to be imported into Australia due to disease risks?

    If KHV becomes a major problem here could similar bans be applied? Is that threat enough to convince the Japanese to create an approved compulsory vaccine?

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Australia use their natural biological barrier of being an island to keep as many non-native diseases and species out as possible. They are pretty paranoid about it and strictly police all ports of entry.

    It is extremely difficult to import any species into Australia at all (it is possible to do it for dogs and cats but the paperwork and testing required is onourous). They have not allowed any carp species to be imported for donkeys years. It very much affects what is possible in the koi hobby over there, being restricted to homebred fish only, with no new blood lines or varieties being introduced.

    It would not only damage the hobby in the UK to try to copy that model, but it would also be very hard to maintain border security as we have a very long coast line with multiple entry points, not far from mainland Europe. It would be very simple to stop koi entering via air transport though. With KHV already in the country, including several outbreaks in the fishing lakes every summer, there is not that much point trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted.

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  28. #37
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Am I right in saying that it is illegal for koi to be imported into Australia due to disease risks?

    If KHV becomes a major problem here could similar bans be applied? Is that threat enough to convince the Japanese to create an approved compulsory vaccine?

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Position is Aus is rather different - it isn't a disease issue rather a threat to the indigenous fish. Yes It is illegal to import carp including Koi into Aus and has been for a number of years... They are highly protective of their indigenous fish and after carp were introduced into their systems over the years (in the same way Zander were over here) the carp thrived and threatened the natural stocks ( or so the scientists say) . Whilst the ban on imports has been in place for a number of years in 2017 they announced plans to introduce KHV infected carp into the waterways to try and eradicate the carp stocks. Rather similar idea to the failed myxomatosis attempts in the 50's.

    So in some ways the situation with KHV in Aus could be seen as the inverse of that in the UK!

    There are some real "proper" Koi keepers in Aus... if they want a fish they have to breed it themselves! Great Guys..
    Last edited by Davej; 22-12-2018 at 10:20 AM.

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  30. #38
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Who are you going to order to pay for the research, developing and licencing costs of the new vaccine?
    The existing KHV ‘vaccine’ failed to get a oroduct licence for use in europe because it couldnt pass the safety and efficacy tests. It costs many hundreds of thousands if pounds to develop these things, and sometimes you even spend that money to end uo with no saleable product at the end if it.

    There is nobody in the UK making sufficient money from koi or carp to justify that kind of speculative outlay. You could argue that the Japanese are the ones making the biggest wads of cash, but it is spread over many many farms some them very small. Unless sales abroad of Japanese fish was severely hit across the board, they are IMO highly unlikely to look at this as a viable option given the major problems the Israeil vaccine has had.
    It should be the Japanese though shouldn't it! We might not be able to boycott all Japanese fish but if we find out which breeders are sending out sick fish we could boycott those. Fish should be heat ramped before export! Expecting purchasers to do it this end is daft - Gary is one of the few who has the facilities to do it. There should be an outright ban on importing un quarantined/tested fish simple!
    Last edited by pip895; 22-12-2018 at 01:46 PM.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  32. #39
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    We have no jurisdiction over what the Japanese do or dont do. KHV is in many countries arroud the world, so this is ultimately not just their problem.

    Yes, we can impose extra requirements on imports. But these have to be possible to verify at this end. Are you going to take a certificate to say a batch of koi have been heat ramped already at face value? Who signs these certificates and how would you check up that thngs have been done correctly? How can you identify the actual fish in the batch with absolute certainty?

    The end result of restrictions at this end would be to push prices up massively in this country only, and probably to severely damage the hobby here and push dealers out of business.
    The best thing we can do is to vote with our feet and buy only from the biosecure dealers who are heat ramping according to the old PKDA guidelines, and educate as many people who are new to the hobby as possible about KHV.
    Last edited by Feline; 22-12-2018 at 05:17 PM.

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  34. #40
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    If there was a ban on non heat ramped fish entering the country - and you are right the Japanese would have to get there act together to make it happen and police it. Then the effect would increase the cost for the likes of garden centres and dealers who don't currently quarantine. For people like Gatwick Koi the costs would actually reduce. It is the only way we can make a real difference because no way will garden centres and the like ever heat ramp.

    Quality control should be the responsibility of the producer not the purchaser! The trouble is that the Japanese are in denial about the issue - they need to have there hand forced!
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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