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  1. #1
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Mode's Avatar
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    To Heat or not to heat - that is the question...

    Hi all

    Back with another question

    Is it worth me investing in a ASHP to heat my 10,000gallon pond.

    Happy to spend the money - is it worth doing?

    One I have looked at is the Duratech 19+ for this size pond...

    Cheers all!

    Mode



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  3. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Are you going to install a cover? Potentially it would allow you to stock your pond earlier but it could get expensive in electricity even with a heat pump.

    [If I were in your position with a big empty pond at this point I would be very tempted to take on fish from Jocallin (see his threads in Koi and Equipment for sale) and probably at least one of his big bead filters complete with
    mature media - just to get you up and running - opportunities to pick up quality fish like that don't come up very often and a few big fish would look so much more impressive in your pond than a dozen or so 8 inch ones.]
    Last edited by pip895; 23-11-2018 at 11:52 AM.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

  4. #3
    Senior Member Rank = Yonsai Mode's Avatar
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    I am reluctant to cover as it would look odd in the setting (ie the wife would object!)

    I would not hear until adding fish which is not till the spring but as I am doing loads of work now is the time?

    I just assume it is a huge benefit in looking after the fish?


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  5. #4
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    If you have the budget to heat then I would say definitely go for it. The fish grow better, and come out of winter so much stronger after not having to fight for survival sitting miserably on the bottom of a cold pond for weeks. You can extend the period of time you get to enjoy your pond too. There's no need to heat it to silly temperatures, but the lowest my fish will go this winter will be 8C. I extended their feeding and growing season until now by heating- just about to start going down below 15C for their short 'winter'.

    It also means that if you had any health issues with the fish you have the ability to get the temperature up to a level where you can treat it. I have raised the temp to 18C so I could inject a fish with antibiotics in the past (too big for the QT). People without the ability to heat have to stand back and watch and hope their fish survive.

    You will probably need to upgrade your pond electric to fit a big heat pump unless you already have them on a separate spur with a high rating and chunky armoured cable.

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  7. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Adding a heat pump later is pretty straightforward - if you are not adding fish till the spring I wouldn't bother with a heat pump at this stage tbh. Ponds loose the great majority of there heat from their surface. I know what you mean about covers though - I resisted for years then caved and added a partial cover. Its a swimming pool floating cover that only covers about 70% of the water surface. I run an aerator under the cover but at the low temperatures I run my pond at over winter the fish would probably be fine even if the power went down for a while.

    I agree with Feline about upgrading the electrics - its not the input watts that you need to consider its the startup surge. Heat pumps rated at under 2kw will still blow a 13a fuse.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  9. #6
    i cant see you keeping 10,000 gallons heated to any meaningful temperature with no covers on in winter, the heat pump will run 24/7 using 3 kilowatts an hour, thats 72 kilowatts a day just on the heat pump
    A floating cover is sounding very appealing ,ha ha.

    Just imagining the steam coming off that puppy on a frosty winter morning

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  11. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai TinyTony's Avatar
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    what is the point of covering 70% of the surface area ?

  12. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyTony View Post
    what is the point of covering 70% of the surface area ?
    70% less water surface exposed gives very considerably less heat loss. It may not be 70% less, because you will still get losses through the plastic but it's still a big help. That's the advantage of a floating cover over a suspended one.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

  13. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai TinyTony's Avatar
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    having covered and heated for 10 yrs I just don't get it,

  14. #10
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyTony View Post
    having covered and heated for 10 yrs I just don't get it,
    Presumably you have a suspended cover, with air trapped under the cover? This is great the air forms an extra insulating layer and small leaks keep the air above the pond fresh.
    If you have a pond that resembles a small lake in an exposed position though it isn't really feasible. A floating cover is an option though. If you use a floating cover the pond can't breath so if you had a power cut you could loose your fish. With 25% of the pond left exposed this is less of a concern. It also allows interaction with the fish which swim over to the exposed area for feeding etc.
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

  15. #11
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinyTony View Post
    having covered and heated for 10 yrs I just don't get it,
    One analogy might be this:

    Park car facing a shaded wall on a cold night (0 degrees) and whilst the side and rear screens frost up, the front screen wont frost over. If temps go a couple of degrees lower, say -2, then the front screen will frost over and the shaded wall offers no protection.

    However, if you put a blanket directly over the screen held down with the wipers, there will be no frost on the screen even down to -6 or -7.

    Even if the blanket only rested on 75% of the screen, the exposed part of the screen would still have less frost on it compared to the other windows.

    I'm guessing (but could be totally wrong) the principle with floating vs suspended pond covers is similar.

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  17. #12
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Putting a floating cover on just part of the surface can lead to koi deaths when they jump and end up stuck on top of the cover. There are members on here that have had that happen. So I personally would never do it or advise anyone to do it.

  18. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai TinyTony's Avatar
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    from experience having anything on the surface , a, what feline has said abouve b, horrible smelly algae grew on the inside of the cover . if theres a 25% gap uncovered surely heat would be lost through this ? also the rain water snow etc on top of the cover would freeze . pip surely if you were worried about powercuts , and ive had them for nearly 5 hrs when the ponds heated at 22 degs and outside temps have been minus 6 would you not ,like myself run battery back up air pumps ??

  19. #14
    As the koi metabolism slow down they use less oxygen and cold water can hold more oxygen so power cuts are not as dangerous in winter

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
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  21. #15
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    If I was heating to 20 degrees then there might be an issue in a power cut but as Keveke said at low temperatures you have the double benefit that the water holds more oxygen and secondly that the koi use less.

    As as for jumping, I can't see that the risk of a koi jumping and ending up on the cover is any more than them ending up out of the pond - if they did end up on the cover they would be highly likely to flip themselves back in. I actually have floating pond rings round the edge of the pond which help reduce the likelihood of this even further.

    My pond is quite shallow at the margins and has a high surface area. By partial insulation I reduce the cooling influence of this. It is like swapping a large single glazed window in your house for a small one. It might stiil be better to get it double glazed but it still looses a lot less heat than it did!
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  23. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    I'd agree with Lara about a floating cover and fish ending up on top of it. Rather different situation to the pond walls where there is some clearance.

    My take is that some form of extreme cold weather protection via heating is desirable - but heating to maintain double digit temps in a 10,000 gallon uncovered pond with an ashp is seriously wallet busting. Gas would be probably be a better option for extreme cold weather protection as the efficiency of ashp is such that when you need it most the performance drops off significantly.

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  25. #17
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai TinyTony's Avatar
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    yep fish always somehow manage to jump out of a gap

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  27. #18
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion lee63's Avatar
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    Ive seen and believe in the benefits of heating from experience with my grow on tank and seeing at dealers and other folks ponds in the flesh and places like here. Unfortunately im not really in a position to heat the main pond constantly but i do cover and i do have an elecro at hand if its needed. I set up my system last year so that it can just be plug and play as such. I break it out back end of winter coming into spring to settle any temp swings or thats what i did last year but it can be stupid costly if trying to heat high.
    Its a big feat to heat a 10k gallon and to do it uncovered would be as said earlier a ridiculous cost. As dave says ashp are brilliant appliances but they do have their limits as with anything and one limit is the performance drop in really cold temps. Would gas be an option?? I think as dave said it may be better on thats size pond but then i still wouldn’t recommend it if uncovered. Might aswell take your money and burn it.
    At the minuite though while you are not stocked it is absolutely pointless in heating it. Least it gives you a bit of time to have a good think about it and then when it comes to starting up/stocking you can make the decision just before then.


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