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  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai maplekoi's Avatar
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    koi keeping the way forward

    what would you like to see to encourage more people get into keeping koi ,



  2. #2
    cheaper koi

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  4. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Cheaper running of koi.
    John

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    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I feel quite conflicted about this question.

    We often get newbies post here about their plans, and it is evident from what they say they are not really prepared for the full scope and costs of the hobby they are about to jump into. I often ask these people questions along the lines are 'are you sure you really want to do this?'.

    The truth is that there are many people who look at a few £20 'A quality' koi in the local garden centre and think the hobby must be cheaper than they had imagined. It is rarely the right thing for them and their family to jump into something that lets face it takes over your garden, turns your water and electricity bills into something to be feared, and means you won't be able to afford a foreign holiday for some years to come

    I would rather attract newbies with their eyes wide open than have to help troubleshoot the disaster that occurs when someone just unprepared for the whole scale of things buys koi then has a problem.

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  8. #5
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    stop all the bulls--t that koi centres give out to make a sale. and tell the truth of what equipment actually does. not what is wrote on the package. so in over words educate them self s. to tell the truth.
    oh and pipe work and fittings. diameter of inner and outer diameter. what fits with what. none plumbers like myself has cost me loads of dosh going down the drain. because they don t fit. when received.
    also lets get rid of the koi tax. its costing us koi keepers a fortune.

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  10. #6
    As someone who's relatively new to it all I can say the biggest problem aside budget is the amount of information and acronyms you have to sieve through. Everyone will always have different opinions on brand x vs brand y and different opinions on what would work but if I could have found a template to copy I would have used it, for example, a Blue Peter style step by step guide.

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  12. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai maplekoi's Avatar
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    so would you all say that the so called koi tax and wrong information given to new comers is the main gripe

  13. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion bowsaw's Avatar
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    new build homes need bigger gardens, hard pressed to fit much in the shoe box of outside "space" developers get away with using to separate homes
    the slow pond build thread

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  15. #9
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maplekoi View Post
    so would you all say that the so called koi tax and wrong information given to new comers is the main gripe
    Im not a believer in the fabled ‘koi tax’. Koi filters and equipment are a small market in this country. I believe that a shop who is prepared to stock stuff for the relatively low sales volumes involved has a right to earn a reasonable living doing so. It’s a free market, so if anyone doesnt like the price they see then they are free to shop around and try to source things elsewhere.

    If koi equipment was really such a rip off as people complain it is, then the dealers and traders selling this stuff would all be rich. That is not what I observe with the koi retailers I know at all.

    We actually had a member on here a few months ago who declared that drum filters were overpriced and not well enough engineered, and that someone should produce a much better one for much less money. But when asked when he was planning to design and launch his new drum the response was ‘oh I’m not going to do it, but someone else should’. The mind boggles!

  16. #10
    Self digging spade.Stand back and watch the spade do all the work.

    Andy

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  18. #11
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maplekoi View Post
    what would you like to see to encourage more people get into keeping koi ,

    Personally I think the start point is giving Guys a better understanding of what keeping koi involves.

    The distinction between water feature and suitable long termhome for Koi has become increasingly confused and there is sadly no longer constructive debate and very littlesound advice available on social media.

    I suspect that if folk really appreciated the true cost of constructing and running a pond that was suitable for Koi and what was required to keep Koi then less would enter the hobby ….. that maybe not be a bad thing? …. for the Koi at least....

    Maybe if Dealers had a responsibility to check that fish were going to a suitable home and were obliged to provide an after sales care service?

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  20. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Sansai maplekoi's Avatar
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    you says dealers maybe obliged to offer an after sales service , i have been to many ponds that can only be described has dire but if you explain what is required they think you are trying to make money we /most only care for the koi and the surroundings but when you ask have tested the water they say well in clear i think that we have to explain but not be patronising in our explanations that way we can only go forward with this amazing hobby we some fantastic people

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  22. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maplekoi View Post
    you says dealers maybe obliged to offer an after sales service , i have been to many ponds that can only be described has dire but if you explain what is required they think you are trying to make money we /most only care for the koi and the surroundings but when you ask have tested the water they say well in clear i think that we have to explain but not be patronising in our explanations that way we can only go forward with this amazing hobby we some fantastic people

    Not sure how you can dress up the fact that a pond isunsuitable?
    I think that one of the main reasons that many of theexperienced Koi keepers no longer contribute on social media is that they get chewedoff when they try and pass on sound advice that may not be what the pond owner iswanting to hear?

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  24. #14
    Interesting thread and comments,

    I believe the amount of information around is enough to build a koi pond correctly, but unfortunately people looking to get into the hobby don't always have the funds available to do it correctly so they cut corners, and no matter how much information is available in black and white they will still continue to build it wrong, and the reason for this is
    because its a desire and not thought through, lack of patience and funds, but still go head, not realising their in for a huge crash later down the line!!
    I guess most beginners initially go down the garden centre route,
    I'd like these places to give out much better info even if it means losing a sale. can't see that happening anytime soon though!!

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  26. #15
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion bowsaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koicrazysteve View Post
    Interesting thread and comments,

    I believe the amount of information around is enough to build a koi pond correctly, but unfortunately people looking to get into the hobby don't always have the funds available to do it correctly so they cut corners, and no matter how much information is available in black and white they will still continue to build it wrong, and the reason for this is
    because its a desire and not thought through, lack of patience and funds, but still go head, not realising their in for a huge crash later down the line!!
    I guess most beginners initially go down the garden centre route,
    I'd like these places to give out much better info even if it means losing a sale. can't see that happening anytime soon though!!
    sadly thats never going to happen, you only have to look at all the species of potential monster sized fish on sale in the sheds etc to see all they want is to turn around stock fast, before keeping it alive from the wholesalers removes all profit.

    its particularly bad in tropicals, as the list of things that grow big fast and its sale and import is not restricted by licence is quite large, you can with little or no questions asked, purchase red tailed catfish, arrowana, giant gourami to name a few. no wonder public aquariums and zoos are always over flowing with certain species,
    the slow pond build thread

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  28. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion Doghouse Riley's Avatar
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    Nothing will ever change. There will always be those who go into the hobby prepared and those who rush into it with a "get it dug and get 'em in" attitude.
    You can make advice and information available but there will always be some who take no notice.
    I think it's a slowly dying hobby, circumstances are against it, build cost, upkeep expenses, smaller gardens with new builds, water meters and other interests that aren't as costly.
    "The information's out there,
    You only have to let it in." (Jesse Stone)

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  30. #17
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Mature Champion pip895's Avatar
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    I do here what you are all saying, but I do wonder though, if a bit of dis information or at least non full disclosure isnt vital for the hobby lol. If I had known the amount of money and time that I would end up spending no way would I have ever bought a Koi!
    6000g in ground koi pond
    +3000g lily/Anoxic pond attached
    29 koi (40 to 65cm)
    Bottom drain, Mid water & Skimmer to Drum
    JBR boichamber->Blue eco 500 pump ->below surface return.
    Blue Eco 240 -> Large MB -> Waterfall -> Planted Anoxic pond (25 baskets)

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  32. #18
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion Doghouse Riley's Avatar
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    One of the problems with "getting a man in," is as soon as you mention the word "koi," the cost of "digging a big hole in the ground," escalates.
    "The information's out there,
    You only have to let it in." (Jesse Stone)

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  34. #19
    The first stop in the world of ponds is usually the garden centre where you’ll get flogged either a multibay, a nexus or something from OASE.
    Until dealers have a bigger “presence” whereby they’re the first port of call then nothing will change, in fact, I’d say nothing has really changed much in the last 15-20 years.
    As for koi keeping being a dying hobby, I actually disagree. I was chatting to Darren at Absolute and the figures he quoted for how much dry goods they sell a month is staggering, that’s without fish! Its certainly a “niche” hobby however, the money involved is immense.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  35. #20
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I agree that the hobby is not actually dying at all. If you go to the koi shows you can see that first hand. It's never going to be a 'mainstream' hobby though, and we wouldn't want it to be.

    It would be awesome if the garden centres would actually sell newbies a multibay or nexus, but unfortunately they usually sell people a pressure filter

 

 
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