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Thread: If you fancy an experiment?
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31-07-2018, 10:10 PM #1
If you fancy an experiment?
If you have time on your hands
Take a litre of k1 from your filter , add to a bucket and top up with pond water to the 10L mark.
Add 1ml of homebase household ammonia and see how long before you get zero Ammonia and the zero Nitrite levels.
Ok the results may be a touch skewed by the testing methods but it may provide some useful copmarative data.
Dave
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31-07-2018, 11:05 PM #2
As I've struggled for Months with background nitrite readings I'd be happy to give this a go.
But no Homebase near me. What percentage ammonia is the Homebase stuff (9.3%?) and I'll try and match it buying elsewhere.
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01-08-2018, 02:04 AM #3
Your local chemist should be able to sell you some ammonia. Tell us the % and we can adjust the amount if it isnt the same.
Im not sure my filters can spare a litre of K1 for this at the moment- they are going to take a little while to get up to speed again.2016 new 6000 gallon pond
https://www.koiforum.uk/pond-construc...ghlight=feline
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01-08-2018, 08:57 AM #4
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01-08-2018, 09:09 AM #5
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01-08-2018, 09:39 AM #6
I've ordered some off eBay with delivery tomorrow.... Don't know the percentage but will find out.
Not sure what you are asking but my Nexus has a home made lid and the filter pit has a solid roof so it's in darkness and it would be my intention to keep the bucket in darkness.
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01-08-2018, 09:46 AM #7
Actually, I'm going to do 2 buckets.
One as per the experiment but in the other I'm going to also add live filter bacteria and see how they compare. I'm not convinced any of these live bacteria cultures actually work so any differences between the 2 buckets would be interesting.
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02-08-2018, 07:25 PM #8
Ammonia didn't arrive - Paid extra for next day delivery to the wifes workplace to get it today as she's booked Friday off.
Now probably wont get it till Monday, unless we get a chance to pop down there on Saturday.
Buying online is sometimes more hassle than finding a shop, especially when Yodel are the courier.
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02-08-2018, 09:45 PM #9
We get it all the time from some couriers, on line they will say they attempted to deliver at 3pm, yet no card left and no door bell ring.
24 hours in with what I think is mature K1 the Ammonia has more than halved to 4mg/l, will see what the Nitrite looks like tomorrow when hopefully the Ammonia will be cleared.
No idea what this experiment is going to prove but it might give some sort of benchmark against which things can be judged. May drop a lump of BHM into 10L and compare the results just by way of "interesting to see"..
Your babes looked nice and healthy on the video BTW.
Dave
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02-08-2018, 10:42 PM #10
Dave,
Are you running air to the bucket or just leaving it still?
Is your bucket kept in darkness?
Might also be worth recording temperature, and all other parameters as these may explain different results between different people.
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02-08-2018, 11:33 PM #11
Hi, we are not aerated, in the filter shed so no light at circa 23C. The KH of the water may come into play in terms of the explaining the results that different folk may have in terms of NO2 removal but the start point is to put some scores on the doors... The biggest uncertainty stems from the 1ml dose in 10L, this equates to 9.5mg/l that is un natural in a koi pond environment. On reflection to take out some variables the ideal would be to leave the K1 and pond water until the Nitrite is clear and then add just .1ml of 9.5% ammonia to give you .95mg/l (similar to a pond after a light spawning).
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03-08-2018, 03:07 PM #12
Yeah you do have a good point there. I have put seachem prime in the pond though (and some Lincs Fish Health PDF) so the water might cock up the results a bit?
Although im still getting a higher free ammonia reading than I want on the Seneye, my API kit is now reading ammonia and nitrite zero. Ive started feeding again and the fish are back to their normal hungry active selves. Its a bit of a rapid recovery from such dire levels no im not sure whether I have just locked up a heap of ammonia with the zeolite and prime or whether things have genuinely bounced back.
I will start the bucket test anyway after ive worked this weekend and will report back on my findings.2016 new 6000 gallon pond
https://www.koiforum.uk/pond-construc...ghlight=feline
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06-08-2018, 06:05 PM #13
Finally got the ammonia delivered!
Experimenting with 2 buckets starting from 6pm today, 6th August.
Both using 10 litres of pond water and 1ml of 9.5% strength ammonia.
Bucket 1 has 1 litre of K1 from the Nexus outer chamber
Bucket 2 has 1 litre of K1 micro from the Nexus inner chamber plus 10ml of Evolution Aqua Filter Start Gel.
Pond water parameters are:
Ammonia = 0 mg/l
Nitrites = 1 mg/l (I can't help this I'm afraid - Haven't fed the fish for 2.5 days and it still wont shift below 1 mg/l)
Nitrates = 20 mg/l
PH = 8.2
KH = 11
GH = 16
Phosphates = 0.5
I should also point out the pond water has 0.15% salinity as a result of the ongoing nitrite problem.
Using NT Labs test kit (which reads up to 10 mg/l ammonia), after adding ammonia to the buckets they both read a fraction under 10 mg/l on the colour scale.
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07-08-2018, 08:56 PM #14
Started a 3rd bucket tonight, same parameters as before except this one has 1 litre of Grog that was new and has been in the centre of the Nexus for around 5 Weeks.
I don't like killing things but couldn't get rid of the many 1000's of black fly larvae all over it. They certainly don't like high ammonia, wriggling around like anything.
EDIT;
CORRECTION: The 1 litre of Grog is not 5 Weeks old, it is in fact exactly 2 Weeks old. I forgot that I moved the original grog out of the basket in the centre pipe of the Nexus to another part of the system and replaced it with brand new Grog on 24th July.Last edited by RS2OOO; 09-08-2018 at 11:04 AM.
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08-08-2018, 05:52 PM #15
Had a huge surprise already with this experiment.
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09-08-2018, 06:46 PM #16
What was the result of your experiment Dave, assuming you are now ammonia and nitrite free?
I'm testing every 24 hours and am totally shocked at what I've seen.
Here's a little teaser after testing the 3 buckets for nitrites....can you guess which is which of these 2 results?
IMG_20180809_184731.jpgLast edited by RS2OOO; 09-08-2018 at 06:52 PM.
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10-08-2018, 07:59 AM #17
is 1 of them from the grog bucket and 1 from the k1 bucket ?
you've certainly got 2 results at the opposite end of the scale there.
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10-08-2018, 08:56 AM #18
Hi,
It took 48 hours for the Ammonia to clear and a further 72 hours to clear the Nitrite.
My guess with your pics is that the Ammonia levels in the sample that has low Nitrite are much higher than the sample showing the higher Nitrite ie the reason there is low Nitrite in the left hand sample is that there is little primary Ammonia conversion going on yet.
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10-08-2018, 09:12 AM #19
You are clearly thinking logically, but that is not the case.
The nitrite, so far, appears to be getting consumed faster than the ammonia in that particular bucket, but also, that bucket is consuming ammonia faster than the others too. There is zero nitrites yet still a fairly strong ammonia reading!
Don't forget, on top of that the original water had a 1mg/l nitrite reading to start with.
The pond itself is persistently over 1mg/l nitrite hence my surprise/shock at the results thus far.
I've already ordered equipment for the pond based solely on this experiment in the hope of cutting the nitrite problem.
I'll post up some test results over the next couple of days as the experiment continues to unfold.
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10-08-2018, 01:36 PM #20
Hiya; yes it is the sort of situation when you can only throw in what logically would seem correct. One of the reasons I like playing with this type of experiment is that I do believe that what works best in practice for you is most important and gives you something tangible to put your faith in - rather than relying on what appears on the internet.
If it helps you find the key to unlocking your puzzle with the pond Nitrite then its a big result. Stick at iit…
Will repeat myself and also drop a lump of BHM into a separate bucket.
Dave.
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The Daily pond temp thread
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