Welcome to Koi Forum. Is this your first visit? Register
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 136
  1. #1
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    7,644
    Thanks / Likes
    1630

    If you fancy an experiment?

    If you have time on your hands

    Take a litre of k1 from your filter , add to a bucket and top up with pond water to the 10L mark.

    Add 1ml of homebase household ammonia and see how long before you get zero Ammonia and the zero Nitrite levels.

    Ok the results may be a touch skewed by the testing methods but it may provide some useful copmarative data.

    Dave



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    5,935
    Thanks / Likes
    13161
    As I've struggled for Months with background nitrite readings I'd be happy to give this a go.

    But no Homebase near me. What percentage ammonia is the Homebase stuff (9.3%?) and I'll try and match it buying elsewhere.

  3. #3
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    Your local chemist should be able to sell you some ammonia. Tell us the % and we can adjust the amount if it isnt the same.

    Im not sure my filters can spare a litre of K1 for this at the moment- they are going to take a little while to get up to speed again.

  4. #4
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    7,644
    Thanks / Likes
    1630
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    As I've struggled for Months with background nitrite readings I'd be happy to give this a go.

    But no Homebase near me. What percentage ammonia is the Homebase stuff (9.3%?) and I'll try and match it buying elsewhere.
    ran

    Yes it might just give some clues as to where you are and where you can get to. The current Homebase stuff is 9.5% but anything in the low 9% range will be accurate enough to get a reasonably good handle on things.

    BTW do you have a lid on your Nexus?

    Dave

  5. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    7,644
    Thanks / Likes
    1630
    Quote Originally Posted by Feline View Post
    Your local chemist should be able to sell you some ammonia. Tell us the % and we can adjust the amount if it isnt the same.

    Im not sure my filters can spare a litre of K1 for this at the moment- they are going to take a little while to get up to speed again.
    Even more reason to compare how yours performs ! it might allow that to be ticked off (or not) the diagnostics trail ?

    Dave

  6. #6
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    5,935
    Thanks / Likes
    13161
    I've ordered some off eBay with delivery tomorrow.... Don't know the percentage but will find out.

    Not sure what you are asking but my Nexus has a home made lid and the filter pit has a solid roof so it's in darkness and it would be my intention to keep the bucket in darkness.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    5,935
    Thanks / Likes
    13161
    Actually, I'm going to do 2 buckets.

    One as per the experiment but in the other I'm going to also add live filter bacteria and see how they compare. I'm not convinced any of these live bacteria cultures actually work so any differences between the 2 buckets would be interesting.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  8. Thanks Ajm Thanked / Liked this Post
  9. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    5,935
    Thanks / Likes
    13161
    Ammonia didn't arrive - Paid extra for next day delivery to the wifes workplace to get it today as she's booked Friday off.

    Now probably wont get it till Monday, unless we get a chance to pop down there on Saturday.

    Buying online is sometimes more hassle than finding a shop, especially when Yodel are the courier.

  10. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    7,644
    Thanks / Likes
    1630
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Ammonia didn't arrive - Paid extra for next day delivery to the wifes workplace to get it today as she's booked Friday off.

    Now probably wont get it till Monday, unless we get a chance to pop down there on Saturday.

    Buying online is sometimes more hassle than finding a shop, especially when Yodel are the courier.
    We get it all the time from some couriers, on line they will say they attempted to deliver at 3pm, yet no card left and no door bell ring.

    24 hours in with what I think is mature K1 the Ammonia has more than halved to 4mg/l, will see what the Nitrite looks like tomorrow when hopefully the Ammonia will be cleared.

    No idea what this experiment is going to prove but it might give some sort of benchmark against which things can be judged. May drop a lump of BHM into 10L and compare the results just by way of "interesting to see"..

    Your babes looked nice and healthy on the video BTW.

    Dave

  11. #10
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    5,935
    Thanks / Likes
    13161
    Dave,
    Are you running air to the bucket or just leaving it still?

    Is your bucket kept in darkness?

    Might also be worth recording temperature, and all other parameters as these may explain different results between different people.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  12. #11
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    7,644
    Thanks / Likes
    1630
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    Dave,
    Are you running air to the bucket or just leaving it still?

    Is your bucket kept in darkness?

    Might also be worth recording temperature, and all other parameters as these may explain different results between different people.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Hi, we are not aerated, in the filter shed so no light at circa 23C. The KH of the water may come into play in terms of the explaining the results that different folk may have in terms of NO2 removal but the start point is to put some scores on the doors... The biggest uncertainty stems from the 1ml dose in 10L, this equates to 9.5mg/l that is un natural in a koi pond environment. On reflection to take out some variables the ideal would be to leave the K1 and pond water until the Nitrite is clear and then add just .1ml of 9.5% ammonia to give you .95mg/l (similar to a pond after a light spawning).

  13. #12
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks / Likes
    5635
    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Even more reason to compare how yours performs ! it might allow that to be ticked off (or not) the diagnostics trail ?

    Dave
    Yeah you do have a good point there. I have put seachem prime in the pond though (and some Lincs Fish Health PDF) so the water might cock up the results a bit?

    Although im still getting a higher free ammonia reading than I want on the Seneye, my API kit is now reading ammonia and nitrite zero. Ive started feeding again and the fish are back to their normal hungry active selves. Its a bit of a rapid recovery from such dire levels no im not sure whether I have just locked up a heap of ammonia with the zeolite and prime or whether things have genuinely bounced back.

    I will start the bucket test anyway after ive worked this weekend and will report back on my findings.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    5,935
    Thanks / Likes
    13161
    Finally got the ammonia delivered!

    Experimenting with 2 buckets starting from 6pm today, 6th August.

    Both using 10 litres of pond water and 1ml of 9.5% strength ammonia.

    Bucket 1 has 1 litre of K1 from the Nexus outer chamber

    Bucket 2 has 1 litre of K1 micro from the Nexus inner chamber plus 10ml of Evolution Aqua Filter Start Gel.

    Pond water parameters are:

    Ammonia = 0 mg/l
    Nitrites = 1 mg/l (I can't help this I'm afraid - Haven't fed the fish for 2.5 days and it still wont shift below 1 mg/l)
    Nitrates = 20 mg/l
    PH = 8.2
    KH = 11
    GH = 16
    Phosphates = 0.5

    I should also point out the pond water has 0.15% salinity as a result of the ongoing nitrite problem.

    Using NT Labs test kit (which reads up to 10 mg/l ammonia), after adding ammonia to the buckets they both read a fraction under 10 mg/l on the colour scale.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    5,935
    Thanks / Likes
    13161
    Started a 3rd bucket tonight, same parameters as before except this one has 1 litre of Grog that was new and has been in the centre of the Nexus for around 5 Weeks.

    I don't like killing things but couldn't get rid of the many 1000's of black fly larvae all over it. They certainly don't like high ammonia, wriggling around like anything.


    EDIT;
    CORRECTION: The 1 litre of Grog is not 5 Weeks old, it is in fact exactly 2 Weeks old. I forgot that I moved the original grog out of the basket in the centre pipe of the Nexus to another part of the system and replaced it with brand new Grog on 24th July.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 09-08-2018 at 11:04 AM.

  16. Thanks RJW2012 Thanked / Liked this Post
  17. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    5,935
    Thanks / Likes
    13161
    Had a huge surprise already with this experiment.

  18. #16
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    5,935
    Thanks / Likes
    13161
    What was the result of your experiment Dave, assuming you are now ammonia and nitrite free?

    I'm testing every 24 hours and am totally shocked at what I've seen.

    Here's a little teaser after testing the 3 buckets for nitrites....can you guess which is which of these 2 results?

    IMG_20180809_184731.jpg
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 09-08-2018 at 06:52 PM.

  19. Thanks RJW2012 Thanked / Liked this Post
  20. #17
    is 1 of them from the grog bucket and 1 from the k1 bucket ?

    you've certainly got 2 results at the opposite end of the scale there.

  21. #18
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    7,644
    Thanks / Likes
    1630
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    What was the result of your experiment Dave, assuming you are now ammonia and nitrite free?

    I'm testing every 24 hours and am totally shocked at what I've seen.

    Here's a little teaser after testing the 3 buckets for nitrites....can you guess which is which of these 2 results?

    IMG_20180809_184731.jpg
    Hi,

    It took 48 hours for the Ammonia to clear and a further 72 hours to clear the Nitrite.

    My guess with your pics is that the Ammonia levels in the sample that has low Nitrite are much higher than the sample showing the higher Nitrite ie the reason there is low Nitrite in the left hand sample is that there is little primary Ammonia conversion going on yet.

  22. #19
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    5,935
    Thanks / Likes
    13161
    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Hi,

    It took 48 hours for the Ammonia to clear and a further 72 hours to clear the Nitrite.

    My guess with your pics is that the Ammonia levels in the sample that has low Nitrite are much higher than the sample showing the higher Nitrite ie the reason there is low Nitrite in the left hand sample is that there is little primary Ammonia conversion going on yet.
    You are clearly thinking logically, but that is not the case.

    The nitrite, so far, appears to be getting consumed faster than the ammonia in that particular bucket, but also, that bucket is consuming ammonia faster than the others too. There is zero nitrites yet still a fairly strong ammonia reading!

    Don't forget, on top of that the original water had a 1mg/l nitrite reading to start with.

    The pond itself is persistently over 1mg/l nitrite hence my surprise/shock at the results thus far.

    I've already ordered equipment for the pond based solely on this experiment in the hope of cutting the nitrite problem.

    I'll post up some test results over the next couple of days as the experiment continues to unfold.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  23. Thanks RJW2012 Thanked / Liked this Post
  24. #20
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    7,644
    Thanks / Likes
    1630
    Quote Originally Posted by RS2OOO View Post
    You are clearly thinking logically, but that is not the case.

    The nitrite, so far, appears to be getting consumed faster than the ammonia in that particular bucket, but also, that bucket is consuming ammonia faster than the others too. There is zero nitrites yet still a fairly strong ammonia reading!

    Don't forget, on top of that the original water had a 1mg/l nitrite reading to start with.

    The pond itself is persistently over 1mg/l nitrite hence my surprise/shock at the results thus far.

    I've already ordered equipment for the pond based solely on this experiment in the hope of cutting the nitrite problem.

    I'll post up some test results over the next couple of days as the experiment continues to unfold.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Hiya; yes it is the sort of situation when you can only throw in what logically would seem correct. One of the reasons I like playing with this type of experiment is that I do believe that what works best in practice for you is most important and gives you something tangible to put your faith in - rather than relying on what appears on the internet.

    If it helps you find the key to unlocking your puzzle with the pond Nitrite then its a big result. Stick at iit…

    Will repeat myself and also drop a lump of BHM into a separate bucket.

    Dave.

  25. Thanks keithatrax, Feline Thanked / Liked this Post
 

 
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:14 AM. Online Koi Mag Forum
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3
Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.

vBulletin Improved By vBFoster® (Lite Version), © UltimateScheme, Ltd.