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  1. #101
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion bowsaw's Avatar
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    are there fire retardants in the flooring material?
    the slow pond build thread

  2. #102
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowsaw View Post
    are there fire retardants in the flooring material?
    No mention of fire retardants in the flooring material. Spec sheets specifically state odourless, sound resistant, non-toxic, vapour resistant etc, but no mention of fire tests anywhere and I've just checked the spec sheets of similar products and they state the same.

    Its almost identical to the grey pipe lagging foam you can buy.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 01-10-2018 at 06:16 PM.

  3. #103
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    24 hours after putting the 60 litres of media back in the Nexus.
    Ammonia = 0 (Was 0.5 yesterday)
    Nitrite = 1 ppm. (Was 2 ppm yesterday).

    If history is anything to go by, nitrites will now stay between 0.5 and 1 ppm for a couple of days, then go back to 2 ppm.

    Took a video of the entire set-up to see if anyone can spot anything wrong. I apologise for it being 5 minutes long, it felt like I was only filming a minute or so!

    The Metallic Doitsu Ochiba is the one that's been sinking to and laying on the bottom for a couple of days. Seems to have perked up today, but still not swimming perfectly.

    Some of the new media is mixed in with older media which makes it look whiter than it really is, but I can assure you some of the media looks really mature but the video doesn't really show it.

    Here's the vid, again, apologies for the length of it:




    As for the bucket, the 15 litres I left in there is still gobbling up ammonia at a rapid rate - I put the same amount in as when there was 60 litres and its being consumed just as quick. Put 2 doses of 5 ml in this morning (5ml gives around 10ppm) and ammonia was zero when I just checked, and nitrite at just 0.5 ppm). I find that amazing and want to keep upping the dose to see how much its capable of coping with.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 01-10-2018 at 07:16 PM.

  4. #104
    mmm, nothing obvious is there

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  6. #105
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    It is all rather strange and for sure the temps now mean a wait till next season

    I have come across temporary swimming pools being treated with an anti fungal spray to avoid issues in storage but would have thought that the effect of such would only be short term IF the liner had been treated in such way.

  7. #106
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Pond nitrite stayed down at 1 ppm for 2 days, now back to 2 ppm as suspected.


    Bucket with just 15 litres K1 - Nitrite = 0ppm. The bucket had 10ml of ammonia added this morning, vastly more than the pond produces in a day. Just poured another 5ml in and it will need another 5ml by bedtime.

    If I could be home all day to keep changing water in the bucket (to prevent PH crash), I reckon it could get through up to 30ml of ammonia in 24 hours.

    If there was a feasible way to pump the pond through the bucket the results would be fascinating.... But then that's just replicating what the Nexus should be doing.

  8. #107
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Bucket Update:

    Bucket now been running for 18 days and as above only has 15 litres of K1 in it. Yesterday it consumed 25ml of ammonia over a 24 hour period and 4 hours after the last dose both ammonia and nitrites were reading zero!

    I'm convinced that if I had time to keep dosing/changing water it would consume at least 30ml of ammonia over 24 hours! I think that's incredible especially bearing in mind the pond water I'm using for the water changes already has 2 mg/l of nitrite in it to start with.


    Sadly, the pond is still reading 2 mg/l nitrite.

  9. #108
    could a u.v be killing nitrobacter ?

    its obviously something in the pond thats not affecting the bucket...so what can kill bacteria in a pond?

  10. #109
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Switched the UV off Months ago.

    I have absolutely no idea what the cause may be and am constantly racking my brain to come up with possibilities.

    I did have a light bulb moment tonight funnily enough. Main liner is Gordon Low EPDM. The liner in the small section is a cheap one off the internet. It is a proper pond liner and branded, but I didn't keep packaging and can't remember who I bought it from. Thing is, I don't recall seeing any algae growing on it. Should algae grow off all pond liners?

    EDIT:
    Found a copy of the small liner packaging wording on the internet and it says this:
    "High quality LDPE sandwiched between two laminated layers of rot-proof and UV resistant coating."

    Any thoughts?

    It would be a nightmare to replace the liner and after everything I've tried so far it would be a big job for something that may not even be the culprit, but I could make some pipework up and bypass the smaller pond that uses this liner and see if it makes a difference.


    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 08-10-2018 at 11:05 PM.

  11. #110
    I think the liner is not the issue.
    In the Netherlands for more people struggling with nitrite with a drum and moving bed combination.
    Mostly it takes more then a year for getting lower nitrite values. Most of this people add a shower/trickle filter to solve the issue.
    But other people say with enough media no problems.

    I have also issue with my new drum filter and moving bed. There is always be nitrite between 0.1 and 0.4 I measure with Hanna nitrite pocket tester.
    The pond is new since february this year. To get a more stable filter I found you can better feed everyday and change water then stop feeding
    Now is more stable with good feeding then feeding less.

  12. #111
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    hi Sjnelle, Possibly you are correct, but I need to carry out a process of elimination to be certain.

    I researched the liner and the LDPE is laminated between Carbon Black and UV stabilizer. Mixed information online but the general consensus is that Carbon Black is food safe and used on most synthetic liners and most liners have a UV stabilizer added but I cannot ascertain what this actually is.

    Pond Nitrites are still 2 ppm, but now ammonia has crept up to 0.25 ppm (possibly slightly higher, but certainly less than 0.5 ppm).

    Tonight I completely bypassed the smaller pond that uses the LDPE liner, but left it full of water and will use this water for the bucket to see if it knocks the cycle at all.

    I'll also test both sections of the pond for nitrites and see if any differences are detected over the coming weeks.

  13. #112
    Can I just ask how many litres of k1 do you have in your nexus?
    I couldn’t see it in your thread?
    Ive run a nexus for a while now.
    Started with a 210 then upgraded to a 320
    k1 takes for ever to mature and in my findings, run a bigger pump then ea say
    I’m running a ea 130 for 275 litres of helix 13, k1 and k3
    when I first started it toke over a year to get my levels down so I kept my old filter running side by side til the nexus toke over
    also what is your kh in the pond?
    This is baffling :-/

  14. #113
    Another trick I learnt from someone was to only run the air pump through the day and switch it off at night, apparently helps the good bacteria get a hold of the media

  15. #114
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    The bucket is now consuming 5ml of ammonia and completely converting it to nitrates in under 4 hours, thus confirming it can consume 30ml ammonia per day.

    Just to re-cap, this bucket is being filtered through an Eheim 2217 (to keep water moving/circulating) which I filled up with 5 litres of K1.

    Therefore, the 15 litres of K1 in the bucket is moving bed, but the 5 litres in the Eheim is static bed.

    Now I need to find a way to work out which media is consuming the bulk of the ammonia..... The moving bed or the static bed. Not worked out how yet.


    Meanwhile, both the main pond and the bypassed section of pond with the cheap liner continue to show 2 mg/l nitrites.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 11-10-2018 at 04:21 PM.

  16. #115
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentsniper View Post
    Another trick I learnt from someone was to only run the air pump through the day and switch it off at night, apparently helps the good bacteria get a hold of the media
    You could have the socket powering the air pump fed via a dawn to dusk light sensor so you don't need to keep remembering to turn it on and off and have an override switch on it so if required once the media is fully matured or if you need to run the air pump after dark for cleaning etc. the air pump can be switched on 24 hours a day or just when needed.

    I can draw you a basic wiring diagram if you like?

    Sounds like you could be getting somewhere with finding a solution to your issue by the looks of things?

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  18. #116
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Or just use one of these:

    Attachment 26040

    I tried turning the air pump off on mine and it made no difference. Also tried running really slow air, really fast air and again no improvement to paramaters.

    Now I've put 6 air-stones in the Nexus which are so much more efficient only one 80 LPM pump is required to supply Nexus and the Pond. The video above shows how well the K1 is moving and I'd estimate that's blowing just 40 lpm.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 11-10-2018 at 06:27 PM.

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  20. #117
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    No need to investigate which of the moving bed in the bucket or the static bed in the filter is consuming the most ammonia.

    Just opened up the filter and the static K1 is dark brown and a total contrast to the almost white K1 in the moving bed bucket.

    I'm sticking it in the Nexus to see if anything happens.

    Meanwhile, the pond parameters have not improved since isolating the section of pond with the cheap liner. Nitrite still 2 mg/l in both sections.

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  22. #118
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Frimley Koi keeper's Avatar
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    So how long did the Static K1 take to turn dark brown?
    What would happen if you turned the aeration off to the moving bed K1?
    Would it speed up the maturing process or make no difference?

  23. #119
    Nitrifying bacteria, the ammonia bug (nitrosomonas) in particular, are motile which means that they have flagella (waving thingies on their rear ends) that they use to move around and they use their motility to hide and they cover themselves with any debris they can find. They can be any colour from opaque/white to light brown and it's often assumed that K1 goes brown as it matures. However, a thick biofilm of the ammonia bug can be opaque so it makes more sense to me that K1 stays white where the bugs don't have access to debris i.e. in a pond with no fines (or your bucket) and it goes brown due to the ammonia bug using the fines to hide under in a pond that has fines.

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  25. #120
    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frimley Koi keeper View Post
    So how long did the Static K1 take to turn dark brown?
    What would happen if you turned the aeration off to the moving bed K1?
    Would it speed up the maturing process or make no difference?
    The Static K1 in the filter was a mix of relatively new K1 and 6 Month old K1 that was already a light beige colour to start with. It was in the Eheim filter for 3 Weeks at an average 19C and I was adding 10ml ammonia initially per day and this crept up to 30 ml per day over the last couple of days. 5ml ammonia was being fully converted to nitrates in under 4 hours.

    Edit: Forgot to answer about turning air off. I've not tried it through fear of something going badly wrong, but I did run for over a month with the air so low there were large dead spots of static K1 around the Nexus, but it made no difference to parameters.
    Last edited by RS2OOO; 12-10-2018 at 09:15 PM.

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