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Thread: Grow on project

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Grow on project

    Well as my koi breeding project didn't go so well I decided to have a go at growing a few koi on keeping the one I like most at the end. These were all purchased from Maple koi based in Surrey, he has some really nice well priced tosai from Japan as well as some jumbo tosai from yoshikigoi. I wanted to purchase fish with potential or fish which will improve in the outdoor environment. Two of these have been kept indoors so have lots to do. All fish are around 25-30cm so will see what I can do in the next 3 months. These pictures where taken a while ago but will update when they go into the pond on Wednesday I will take individual photos and videos. Will measure each fish to see which one grows the most and keep this thread updated. Opinions on the fish would be greatly appreciated, I'm very critical so if you have something bad to say then don't hesitate and I mean it, will only be keeping one of them at the end anyway due to stocking density.
    Cheers chris


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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai blue harbour's Avatar
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    Liking the look of what I think are the showa on the bottom pic- especially the one at the top of the bowel!!

    I’m wanting to move a few of mine on to make way for possibly a nice showa myself!

    Anyway - good luck!


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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Cheers! Have the middle one in the bottom pic, looks extremely different now as do all four fish to be honest. A few more days and I’ll have better pictures. Also will put videos up on my my youtube channel- Chriskoi .
    Cheers Chris


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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion lee63's Avatar
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    Nice one chris Grow on project i will wait for the most recent pictures to give my opinion but they all look worth a shot by the ones posted. Im also liking the showa Grow on project


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    Lovely koi Chris,are they tosai? look very big.
    John

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee63 View Post
    Nice one chris Grow on project i will wait for the most recent pictures to give my opinion but they all look worth a shot by the ones posted. Im also liking the showa Grow on project


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    Yeah no worries, want to see how the fish from different breeders compare and the development of colours come out.
    Cheers


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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john1 View Post
    Lovely koi Chris,are they tosai? look very big.
    No they are small nisai but haven’t had the opportunity to grow, so should hopefully see some good growth rates over the summer. Will do a measure up and videos/ photos on Wednesday!
    Cheers


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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Grow on project

    Ok so after a 48 hour treatment in 9ppt of salt I have placed the fish into the pond. All looking good and already feeding. Videos will hopefully be on YouTube of each fish. Here are the pictures below. Critical comment will be well great, if you hate the fish then please say honestly, pointing out negatives will just help with future decisions etc. Just want to learn a bit more about breeder blood lines and development processes. Be nice to see which ones people think will do best and not so well etc.
    Cheers


    Hosokai kage shiro utsuri, Nisai , 31cm
    Has nice balanced sumi with a big head. I think this one has the best frame of the four but not sure how this will develop. Has been indoors for the past year so I'm sure more sumi will appear however I am unsure on how the underlying pattern will change. Never kept one of these before as it's an unusual variety.


    Takahashi, showa, nisai, 33cm
    My least favourite of the four however the biggest of the bunch. Believe the lack of sumi is the reason I don't like this as much however hopefully the sumi will punch through and create a nice head pattern, along with patches between the beni. 99% sure this is female.


    Takahashi Showa, nisai 29cm
    The smallest of the four but with lots of potential I believe, think this has the best beni by far with good kiwa and sashi. Sumi placement looks good as well as the strong motoguru and head size, think the frame lets this fish down and I am sceptical about its growth rate, but we will see. Will be interesting to see how the sumi on the head comes through or fades away,


    Hosokai Showa, nisai 31cm.
    Fairly decent head and not bad frame on this one but quite a messy pattern. Not keen on this fish but I think it may develop nicely, like the head pattern and believe the sumi is good, coupled with the thick motoguru in the fins. Not a great Kohaku pattern but fairly nice step placement on this.





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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Any thoughts guys? Come on, someone must have some opinions


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    Grow on project

    Well all I can say is that to my untrained/inexperienced eye they all look like crackers, I know your not keen on the hosokai showa, but I quite like it myself.

    Also like the 1st fish as it’s pictured above, that might change I guess if I saw it in the flesh, but from what I can see in the photo I like what I see, it’s different and not something I’ve seen before (at least not that I can remember anyway!), wouldn’t want much more (if any) sumi to come through though as too much would spoil it in my opinion!


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    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai Handy Kenny's Avatar
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    Any of them can come and live in my pond if they like! 1 and 2 are my favourites.

    Kenny

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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue harbour View Post
    Well all I can say is that to my untrained/inexperienced eye they all look like crackers, I know your not keen on the hosokai showa, but I quite like it myself.

    Also like the 1st fish as it’s pictured above, that might change I guess if I saw it in the flesh, but from what I can see in the photo I like what I see, it’s different and not something I’ve seen before (at least not that I can remember anyway!), wouldn’t want much more (if any) sumi to come through though as too much would spoil it in my opinion!


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    Cheers for the comments really appreciated. Yes the first one isn't a fish commonly seen, think this one will develop nicely. I don't dislike the 4th fish (Showa) but it depends how the colours improve and body shape. Not sure which ones going to grow the most yet
    Cheers


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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handy Kenny View Post
    Any of them can come and live in my pond if they like! 1 and 2 are my favourites.

    Kenny
    Haha sure thing thanks for the input! Number 2 might turn out well, think 3 is my current favourite but depends how the sumi comes through on number 2.
    Cheers


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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion lee63's Avatar
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    I like the cage shiro mate as its different and not that common as said. As for the showa (im only going by my own experience here) im not a fan of 2 or 3, as they are nisai already then i dont see the sumi coming out on either too much more which they ideally need imo. The 4th is pretty much guaranteed to have a traditional heavy sumi pattern to it. Yes the beni is a bit messy but if the pattern thickens up to hide this and make it complete then it should look fine (it looks good enough for me now Grow on project)
    I have an isa showa that had perfect sumi in the right areas at tosai to believe it would turn into a lovely traditional heavy patterened showa, 3 months in my pond and ever since its been a messy kohaku with vague underlying sumi in places where it once was Grow on project that been said its been a very good grower and im still in the hope the sumi will come back out (its 3 yr old now and still no sign really though)
    As for body shapes i dont think any of them are jumbo material but i coukd be wrong mate. Hopefully they all do well and grow well. Sumi comes up on the 2 with the least and the pattern strenthens on the 4th Grow on project best of luck. I would be happy to give any of them a go myself bud Grow on project


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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee63 View Post
    I like the cage shiro mate as its different and not that common as said. As for the showa (im only going by my own experience here) im not a fan of 2 or 3, as they are nisai already then i dont see the sumi coming out on either too much more which they ideally need imo. The 4th is pretty much guaranteed to have a traditional heavy sumi pattern to it. Yes the beni is a bit messy but if the pattern thickens up to hide this and make it complete then it should look fine (it looks good enough for me now Grow on project)
    I have an isa showa that had perfect sumi in the right areas at tosai to believe it would turn into a lovely traditional heavy patterened showa, 3 months in my pond and ever since its been a messy kohaku with vague underlying sumi in places where it once was Grow on project that been said its been a very good grower and im still in the hope the sumi will come back out (its 3 yr old now and still no sign really though)
    As for body shapes i dont think any of them are jumbo material but i coukd be wrong mate. Hopefully they all do well and grow well. Sumi comes up on the 2 with the least and the pattern strenthens on the 4th Grow on project best of luck. I would be happy to give any of them a go myself bud Grow on project


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    Cheers for that! Great input! Interesting to see what you’ve said about the sumi on the 2 showas, I suspect you might be right, however they have only been kept inside and not been given a chance to grow, so I’m hopeful lol. The beni is looking a little weak on the head of the largest fish so not keen on this one. As you say the last Showa is starting to look nicer to me, do like that heavy sumi, I hope the beni comes out now it’s in the sun and as you say, the sumi thickens up over the underlying pattern. Although 1 foot long these fish look tiny in the main pond! They have kicked up the larger fish which are a bit sluggish, they don’t know what’s hit them haha
    Cheers Chris


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    Grow on project

    Im sure they will do well chris Grow on project its just a waiting game and having a bit of patience Grow on project


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    Last edited by lee63; 15-07-2018 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Spelling
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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee63 View Post
    Im sure they will do well chris Grow on project its just a waiting game and having a bit of patience Grow on project


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    Cheers lee, yes I’m hopeful, will find out in the September measure up and photographing.


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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion lee63's Avatar
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    Be nice to see in september mate Grow on project


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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Ok so finished work now just before I go back and do my last year at university so decided to do my September measure up. Ended up getting all the fish out the pond and was pleased with the growth. Probably the best year of growth I have ever seen.

    Onto the grow on Fish. So had some really good growth and some interesting findings haha. Let’s just say if I were to buy a tosai again I would spend a lot more money to buy a higher quality fish. All growth has occurred over 8 weeks and I’m impressed!

    Fish number 1

    Here’s the fish on the day of purchase. Not a bad looking fish but weak beni/ beni placement.

    And here’s the fish afterwards, basically turned into an aweful shiro. Grown from 31cm to 40cm

    Fish number 2

    Lost a bit of sumi pattern, has grown from 31cm- 39cm so 8cm and lots of weight in only 8 weeks! That’s 1cm each week!



    Next the showa, this is the fish I’ll be keeping, sorry for all the bad pics but this has had good growth and development for future potential. Hopefully the beni will thicken and deepen as it gets colder. Grown from 33-40cm


    Pic of afterwards


    The last showa, I think this was originally the best fish and has grown/ developed nicely. I can see that the body won’t provide a larger fish for the future and the beni also weakened like the other showa



    Picture afterwards, grown from 29-35cm


    This is the first time I’ve properly tried growing on tosai but will definitely purchase higher quality fish with stronger blood lines next time. Overall was interesting to learn about the fish and I am astonished at some of the growth rates. I cannot attached all 8 pictures do will post the other four below
    Cheers Chris




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    Senior Member Rank = Mature Champion 14crazychris's Avatar
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    Here’s the other pictures in order of the above paragraphs







    .


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