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  1. #1

    In the eternal fight of man vs fluke

    Will man win ?

    IMG_2388.jpg

    Behold ....the Fluke Nuke.

    I realise there are many opinions on supaverm use, but im fed up of putting the fish through multiple treatments, that cost a lot and don't really work, faffin about with acetone dissolving powder,
    and then all the million reasons, as to why it might not have worked .
    I'd sooner put the fish through the stress of a treatment once and have done with it, i guess its a bonus that its so cheap compared to other fluke treatments.
    The 1 litre bottle cost £72, but the dose is only 1ml per 100 gallons, so if you work out cost per treatment its really cheap, I only need 55ml for a treatment.!

    a quote from Duncan Griffiths book
    "Supaverm can make eradication easy when dosed as stated for skin flukes. Although i cannot say for sure that one pass
    with supaverm will totally eradicate Gill flukes, i can say that, based on my experience and with the right treatment near 99%
    eradication is entirely possible.
    Put another way, i have treated many times for Gill fluke with supaverm and returned next season to re-inspect the stock.
    Provided no external contamination has occurred , i.e, no new fish or cross contamination, i have yet to find any Gill fluke
    from previous infestations once treated with supaverm.

    Ill update when i use it

    David



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion Doghouse Riley's Avatar
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    That seems an awful lot of money, particularly if you only need to treat once, but as they say "each to their own,"


    I've used this a few times, but never until when the water gets warmer.


    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KUSURI-FL...item2820b79287


    We've discussed this before, making it up in a paste of acetone. I didn't find that a problem

    I've not had to use any since 2016, So in my situation it works.

    I don't think you can apply a "one size fits all, " to any form of medication.

    But thanks for posting the information.
    "The information's out there,
    You only have to let it in." (Jesse Stone)

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by familyman View Post
    Will man win ?

    IMG_2388.jpg

    Behold ....the Fluke Nuke.

    I realise there are many opinions on supaverm use, but im fed up of putting the fish through multiple treatments, that cost a lot and don't really work, faffin about with acetone dissolving powder,
    and then all the million reasons, as to why it might not have worked .
    I'd sooner put the fish through the stress of a treatment once and have done with it, i guess its a bonus that its so cheap compared to other fluke treatments.
    The 1 litre bottle cost £72, but the dose is only 1ml per 100 gallons, so if you work out cost per treatment its really cheap, I only need 55ml for a treatment.!

    a quote from Duncan Griffiths book
    "Supaverm can make eradication easy when dosed as stated for skin flukes. Although i cannot say for sure that one pass
    with supaverm will totally eradicate Gill flukes, i can say that, based on my experience and with the right treatment near 99%
    eradication is entirely possible.
    Put another way, i have treated many times for Gill fluke with supaverm and returned next season to re-inspect the stock.
    Provided no external contamination has occurred , i.e, no new fish or cross contamination, i have yet to find any Gill fluke
    from previous infestations once treated with supaverm.

    Ill update when i use it

    David
    Hi David dare I ask how you got hold of supaverm? Only heard how goood its is but if you get it wrong you can ruin koi or kill them,sounds like you have used it a few times,do your koi flash and jump when treating?

    jay

  4. #4
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion voodoo_15_uk's Avatar
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    I feel your pain with the flukes. We have them yet again, I think it's the 8th or 9th time since we got the pond finished in Feb last year. I've tried everything including supaverm and none have worked. I've put it down to the cleaning pump and trickle taking the treatment out before it's had chance to do the damage. I didn't think to take the screens out and just run without the cleaning pump. I'm hoping when my new treatment arrives that it will work now the pump is in its own tank.

  5. #5
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    David,

    Duncan's book was penned a good few years ago and things change as more research comes to the fore. If you ask him whether he would recommend that you use SV I strongly suspect he will say no. The reason being that one of the active ingredients has been found to cause issues with the Koi's nervous system.

    Ive used SV in the distant past, believe me it can be real aggressive on the fish. Getting a measured dose is difficult and even if this is added in small diluted quantities over 48 hours you can still turn all the fish pink, or worse.

    If the temps are controllable and on the rise then you have more chance of being able to manage any issues.

    Dave

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    David,

    Duncan's book was penned a good few years ago and things change as more research comes to the fore. If you ask him whether he would recommend that you use SV I strongly suspect he will say no. The reason being that one of the active ingredients has been found to cause issues with the Koi's nervous system.

    Ive used SV in the distant past, believe me it can be real aggressive on the fish. Getting a measured dose is difficult and even if this is added in small diluted quantities over 48 hours you can still turn all the fish pink, or worse.

    If the temps are controllable and on the rise then you have more chance of being able to manage any issues.

    Dave
    Hi Dave,
    whats your poison for flukes these days ? as it’s all you here about fluke treatment not working,Duncan has a new ish fluke treatment he is selling have you use that?

    jay

  7. #7
    I heat all year round (20 to 25 degrees).
    Oversized filters.
    Decent food.
    I haven’t treated for anything for several years.
    I have introduced new fish from various sources with no QT.

    When I treated a lot in the past I had constant problems.

    Since I stopped adding any chemicals (except a bit of ST now and then and a tiny amount of salt out of my water softener) I’ve had almost zero problems.

    I put it down to giving the fish the right conditions to fight stuff off.
    But I 100% accept I may just have been lucky.
    It’s impossible to prove one way or the other.
    It’s definitely worked for me.

    I’m not trying to be self righteous, just pointing out it’s not just a matter of which chemical to add, you could choose to add none and maybe the end result will be better.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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  9. #8
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Jay

    I find that Flubenol mixed very carefully in acetone works for me on 9 out of ten occasions. I don't get Skin flukes but need to contain Gill Fluke numbers.

    The key I think is in the mixing

  10. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKitching View Post
    I heat all year round (20 to 25 degrees).
    Oversized filters.
    Decent food.
    I haven’t treated for anything for several years.
    I have introduced new fish from various sources with no QT.

    When I treated a lot in the past I had constant problems.

    Since I stopped adding any chemicals (except a bit of ST now and then and a tiny amount of salt out of my water softener) I’ve had almost zero problems.

    I put it down to giving the fish the right conditions to fight stuff off.
    But I 100% accept I may just have been lucky.
    It’s impossible to prove one way or the other.
    It’s definitely worked for me.

    I’m not trying to be self righteous, just pointing out it’s not just a matter of which chemical to add, you could choose to add none and maybe the end result will be better.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That's fantastic John, but what are you suggesting in respect of David's dilemma?

    He heats to 20C + and the flukes just disappear?

    Dave

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Jay

    I find that Flubenol mixed very carefully in acetone works for me on 9 out of ten occasions. I don't get Skin flukes but need to contain Gill Fluke numbers.

    The key I think is in the mixing
    Thanks Dave I have never used Flubenol as can’t get hold of any,found that lernex pro treated two weeks apart got rid of my gill flukes ,finger crossed

    jay

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  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    That's fantastic John, but what are you suggesting in respect of David's dilemma?

    He heats to 20C + and the flukes just disappear?

    Dave
    I don’t know.
    I believe the constant treatments knock the fish badly and you get into a vicious cycle.
    But how you stop I don’t know.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  14. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Grand Champion voodoo_15_uk's Avatar
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    I’ve tried the fluke stuff by DG and it’s a nightmare to mix, expensive and still didn’t work.
    I have tried not doing anything and just sitting on my hands but it gets to a point when they are damaging themselves and getting raised scales.


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  15. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKitching View Post
    I don’t know.
    I believe the constant treatments knock the fish badly and you get into a vicious cycle.
    But how you stop I don’t know.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    i would agree with that John in terms of treatments that are not required.

    Always going to be a judgement call on when to investigate, when to intervene and with what, which is really the point at issue here.

  16. #14
    Currently im working away, i saw it for sale in a farm shop and so i brought it.
    Right now i don't even need it, im just waiting till i do, i know i have flukes in the pond,
    ive seen them on a scrape, but they arent currently a problem, fish are behaving fine
    however i know things can change quickly, so when the chance arose i just got it.
    The only thing i havent tried is fluke solve, which is much more expensive and seems to fail quite regularly.

    David

  17. #15
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai big h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Jay

    I find that Flubenol mixed very carefully in acetone works for me on 9 out of ten occasions. I don't get Skin flukes but need to contain Gill Fluke numbers.

    The key I think is in the mixing
    Hi Dave,how do you mix the acetone and Flubenol.Ive always just measured each and mixed together,leaving for 20 mins before adding to the pond with uv and pump off.Ive heard of people using boiling water to good effect.Regards,paul

  18. #16
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big h View Post
    Hi Dave,how do you mix the acetone and Flubenol.Ive always just measured each and mixed together,leaving for 20 mins before adding to the pond with uv and pump off.Ive heard of people using boiling water to good effect.Regards,paul
    I use a lidded jam jar to do the mixing.

    add just a enough acetone to make a thick paste, leave for ten minutes.

    add some more acetone and shake vigorously leave to stand.

    shake again and leave to stand.

    maybe repeating 3 or 4 times.

    then after a good shake add a little to a bucket of pond water quick stir then add to the pond.

    repeat until all the med is in.

    bit of a long winded approach .... but it delivers, none of the fluke treatments are particularly easy to dissolve so better to take some time and do it as best you can first time rather than put them through a failed treatment.

    hope that helps

  19. #17
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I have used a protein shake mixer cup to dissolve it in (they cost about £5 to buy)- had to buy my OH a new one afterwards
    But it has a gridded section to help dissolve the protein drink when you shake it so seems to help with this.
    There are few folk now advocating turning your drum off for several hours when you put the treatment in (or bypassing the screens) to avoid it being taken out of the system too fast.
    I had considered smearing the paste onto the BHM in my shower to allow it to gradually dissolve. But I was not sure whether it would reach and maintain a therapeutic dose in the water for long enough done that way.

  20. #18
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Fishplanetkoi's Avatar
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    Some interesting information here, but regarding gill flukes which are egg layers, my take on this is that one hit treatments don't work due to the eggs not being affected by any treatment,

    I always treat twice, either with Flubenol or Praziquantel based treatments. I do the second treatment 7 days after the first as by then you would hope that the eggs have hatched, therefore killing the new flukes.

    I know that the gestation period of fluke eggs varies according to the water temp, but I normally do this around late spring if needed, so the water has warmed up a bit, and up to now its been successful.

    I think that the eggs can hatch a soon as 4 days in really warm water, and it can be as long as 30 days in cold water..apparently, but that's only what I have read.
    The hatchlings apparently take around 10 days to mature before they can lay eggs, so that is why I carry out the second treatment after 7 days, to catch the new ones that have hatched since the first treatment, and before they themselves can lay eggs.

  21. #19
    supaverm kills the eggs, that's why its so good, it takes away all the guessing about how many days apart to treat, for a second time to kill newly hatched ones.

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  23. #20
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai TinyTony's Avatar
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    superverm will also kills fish , every year I suffer at least 3 times on average with fluke , always have done but no matter how
    annoying it can be I have no intention of killing my fish out right or very slowly using superverm

 

 
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