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Thread: salt bath

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai TommyTomo's Avatar
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    salt bath

    Hi all, I am a bit stuck...I wanted to salt bath a fish and I am using 12 litres of pond water in the container, but don't know how many grams of salt to use...my scales only use grams if anyone could help please...
    wish I stayed off the booze last night as my brain just wont switch on.

    Thanks



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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Hi Tommy,just looking in my little reference book.

    3% [2.5lbs-10gals] for 30 secs - 1min [1.1 kgs ]

    1.2% [ 1lb-10gals ] up to 30mins [450gms]

    another one says 3oz per gal for 10mins [75gms]

    Your best cure is "the hare of the dog" have another drink.

    Hope this helps.
    John

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai TommyTomo's Avatar
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    thanks john...I tried a smaller dose at 2oz for 10 mins and my fish keeled over within 30 seconds so I took it out and it took ages for it to come round...I think it must have been really weak as It sat on the bottom all day and came up to feed now and again... the fish seems to have like a film over it... anyway I ended up getting a brush out and pasting it with salt paste, It is now swimming about but when I put the paste on it seemed to make the film stand out more...don't know if its fungal or what.

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai TommyTomo's Avatar
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    I googled film on koi fish and it came up with Epistylis...says its a fungus down to dirty water, my water is crystal clear and I have a permanent trickle of water going in and I clean my filters everyweek and do partial water changes.

  7. #5
    Here are some salt tables I calculated for my water quality students. They should help determine the amount of salt to add in order to achieve any particular concentration in ponds, hospital tanks, dips and also to help protect koi from elevated nitrite levels.

    Although I've calculated a table for salting a pond, this table is for those hobbyists who do salt their ponds. I still don't recommend permanent salinity in koi ponds.

    Similarly with using salt to help protect koi against some of the effects of elevated nitrite levels. Salt doesn't provide complete protection against nitrite so a series of water changes to dilute out the nitrite is better but the table is for any circumstance where this isn't possible.

    Last edited by Manky Sanke; 01-05-2018 at 05:06 PM. Reason: Relaced salt concentration table which had gone missing

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    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I would be seriously careful about salt bathing an unwell fish. Whilst salt when used as a treatment can be an effective way to go, a salt bath not so much so because it puts the fish through enormous osmotic stress. Stress suppresses the immune system, which is the absolute last thing you want when a fish is poorly.

    Finding themselves in a 'stronger' solution of any dissolved substance causes the fish to have to make a rapid adjustment in their cells and kidneys which rather than helping them cope with disease actually puts them under stress. If you make that change and just when they are trying to cope with it then put them back in the pond again, they have to go through that twice.

    I believe that if you think your koi has something that salt will benefit, then it is way better to put them into a QT and gradually increase the salt in there, then hold it at that for a period of time before reducing it gradually and putting them back in the pond. Or even salt the whole pond- with the obvious disadvantages of cost of an awful lot of salt, then prolonged period to dilute it all out.

    I know not everyone will agree with me on this one

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai TommyTomo's Avatar
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    Thanks Feline & Manky...yeah he/she was stressed after very little time...I took it out and I thought I had lost it as it seemed to lay there for ages with mouth open and gills not moving...I put it straight under the airstone and pulled it back and forth and It seemed to come round again...don't think I will be doing that it a hurry again...aint seen it sat on the bottom since, its always swimming now but its still got a slight film all over it...anyone got any idea's what it could be and a treatmeant ?

    Thanks

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    Senior Member Rank = Hassai dc197's Avatar
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    A salt paste brushed on sounds like a bizarre idea. The salt paste must be approaching a saturated solution, i.e. the strongest you can get. Is this a well-known and accepted technique?

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Agree with Dc on that one sounds like you are going to grill it for T.

    If it is Epistylis caused by bad water your water may look crystal clear and clean your filters every week and tricle in but there maybe nooks where badness can hide.

    Not having a go Tommy only trying to help but what sort of filter do you have?
    Bad bacteria hiding in the nooks and cranneys is a no no,you will have to go through your filtration inch by inch to make sure there is no other settlement and if so get rid.

    Deep thorough clean is a must and stay on top of it.
    John

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    The fish struggling to cope with the salt bath is possibly down to the gills being congested, it does sadly give a pointer that any chemical treatment is going to involve high risk for the fish..

    The film you are seeing on the fish is probably a natural reaction to produce more mucus because it has a problem. If a fish has a serious issue then the mucus will often be thick, white and "gloopy" to the touch and on a slide

    Did you examine the gills of the fish?

    Do think that taking a scrape is the way to go, lot less stressful on the fish than subjecting it to treatment of any sort blind... If it comes up blank then that is good news as the focus can solely be on the water but it would leave you with a great more certainty on which direction you need to go in..

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai TommyTomo's Avatar
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    Hi john and dave...sry I took so long to reply, work work work
    I see what you mean John, I have 2 bio qubes 800 on bottom drain and a 400 on skimmer.
    If I closed off the inlets and outlets, What could could I put in the filters to kill any bad bacteria ?, I would also flush it out a few times.
    I wont be able to do any scrapes till Saturday Dave as its always pitch black when I get home, but I will defo do 1 sat.
    Thanks for replies, much appreciated
    would pp kill bad bacteria ?

  18. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TommyTomo View Post
    Hi john and dave...sry I took so long to reply, work work work
    I see what you mean John, I have 2 bio qubes 800 on bottom drain and a 400 on skimmer.
    If I closed off the inlets and outlets, What could could I put in the filters to kill any bad bacteria ?, I would also flush it out a few times.
    I wont be able to do any scrapes till Saturday Dave as its always pitch black when I get home, but I will defo do 1 sat.
    Thanks for replies, much appreciated
    would pp kill bad bacteria ?
    Chemicals sadly don't differentiate between good and bad bacteria, they will have an impact on both and the one thing that the fish need least is any ammonia or nitrite spikes.

    The issues you are seeing may be secondary to a parasite issue, these having provided the opportunity for infection either by chewing some flesh, causing the fish to flash or dehabilitating the fish. Hopefully you can get a scrape done at the weekend.

  19. #14
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai TommyTomo's Avatar
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    ok thanks for that dave...will see what scrape brings in the morning

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Dont know anything about bio cubes but if any muck is stuck in the corners it needs shifting,have a good smell in your filters,any stink and there is muck in there it should smell sweet.
    John

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai TommyTomo's Avatar
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    done 2 scrapes today...1 on the sick chag & another on a ghosty as he twitches sometimes...I couldn't find anything at all, I went over it about 3 times...both gills look nice and red, so next thing is my filters & believe me they don't smell sweet

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai TommyTomo's Avatar
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    I cleaned the filters the weekend & flushed them about 3 times... done scrapes and found nothing but my chag still sat on the bottom again looking unwell, can anyone suggest anything please.
    Thanks

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion john1's Avatar
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    Ok,you have cleaned the filters well and your chag is sat on the bottom unwell,are there any marks on their body?

    What is your water temp?

    A salt bath cures a lot of sins but not all so is it the water temp?
    If the water temp is low this will make them sit on the bottom,i am trying to see what symtems we have here sorry to be asking a lot of questions but i am not too good on ailments maybe a picture of the infected fish may help us.
    John

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    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai TommyTomo's Avatar
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    Thanks for reply John & sry it took me so long to get on...I wont be able to check this till Thursday unless I can get a torch..There doesn't seem to be any marks but she comes up now and again when the others are feeding and she doesn't look to good...as mentioned earlier I gave her a salt bath and she seemed to stop breathing...she just seems so weak, all the others are fine and swimming about...I lifted one of the covers and put my arm under water and it didn't seem that cold, but It was to dark to find the floating thermo..I am off thurs so will take pics...also I have 5 fish in a 100 gall tank in the garage...would it be to much to transfer these fish to the main pond and put the chag in the tank...its heated with a 500w aquarium heater, I was just worried about swopping them out in the winter.

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    Senior Member Rank = Supreme Champion freddyboy's Avatar
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    that s what i did last year. i had some fish with ulcers. what i did was equalise the water in a bowl. it was say 20 in my tank. and six in my pond so i dropped temp 2 degrees a day. should say be 1 degree a day
    .but it was an emergency. so went for 2 degrees. after 4 days. i got it near enough. put a couple of buckets of qt tank water and a couple of pond water. put the fish in bowl. and i left them for a couple of hours.
    then transferred them over to the tank. four in all. saved there life s. there brill now. they get hardy after a while. take that cold snap last week one day my pond temp was 12 degrees. looked next morning it dropped to 2 degrees. back to 6 degrees now, but if there in a bad way mate get them in the tank. with warmth . mine is set at 22c. heal them self s then. plus if you have to. put some salt in at 0.3 for 48 hours. then up it to 0.6
    i was amazed what a difference that did to my fish. i healed them then put them back in the pond. and brought my little ones back to qt. 8 weeks later. that worked for me.

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