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  1. #1

    ASHP at night!!!

    So it's 3:34am as I type this message and I've just gone out and turned off my ASHP. I can't cope and neither can my wife, it is driving us bonkers. I can hear it whirling and wuuring away and it's simply keeping us awake. I'm surprised my neighbours haven't complained. It's a cold night and I'm sure the colder it is the harder it works and the louder it is and also the fan makes an uneven whirling noise as it spins ...so annoying!

    But, I'm upset. I love my koi being heated, they have benefitted from it massively. What can I do? I have no money to purchase a better quality unit.

    I'm up for work in two hours so I'll turn it back on again then but I need a long term plan. If I set temperatures a little higher, say back to 15 from where I am now at 12, could I then just put it on a timer and literally knock it off between the hours of say 11:30pm -6:30am or would this temperature fluctuation be too much. I basically can't keep running it with the noise it is making despite how much I love my fish!!!!

    Help or or advice anyone?

    It it is a second hand dream unit working to a 0.5deg drop using a separate thermostat and which has rattled and whirled since I bought it - but at 10kw it quickly heats my 1200 gal pond! Just not before it has woken us up!

    Chris



  2. #2
    yeah put It on timer so it comes on in the day only, they are very inefficient at night anyway when temps are low.

  3. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    I have seen an ASHP company at a show adding adhesive sponge pads to quieten it down. They installed them on the wire mesh that protects the fan blade.
    Maybe worth a try
    5000 Gallon Fibreglassed Pond With 54" x 27" Infinity Window
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  5. #4
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    This was one of the reasons I bought a Duratech- they are not only quiter but also have a built in timer so you can set them to turn off at night if you want. They also have a setting for reducing the fan speed, which makes them quieter but slightly less efficient. Im assuming a Dream does not have those features in the control panel?

  6. #5
    Andy - would try anything to improve it. What is the brand or any links?

    Feline - yes there is a timer but I've not used it and I've also added an external thermostat so I don't know if it'll work!! I'm going to try it when I get back from work!!

    What worries me is the fluctuating temperature! On a cold night, if I turn the ashp at say 11pm with the water at 14deg what will it drop two by 7:00am? Will the koi be ok??

  7. #6
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Andy1671's Avatar
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    B and Q should sell them or any hardware type store.
    5000 Gallon Fibreglassed Pond With 54" x 27" Infinity Window
    BD300 Drum Filter
    Artesian 0.5hp - Aquadyne 4.4c Beadfilter - PS4 Protein Shower
    Badu Eco Touch - EP20 UV Sterilizer - ASHP - Venturi
    Hi Blo 60 - Medo 45 - Spindrifter Bottom Drain
    Wide Mouthed Skimmer

  8. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai Scamp's Avatar
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    Chris, try it on a timer and see what happens. Do you have covers fitted, if so the drop shouldn’t be a problem, but give it a go..it the easiest way without big outlay. As was stated above ashp are far less efficient during the night lower temps. Just my opinion but I’d not want to block the fan side of the heater, to try and reduce noise, as you may damage it..they need a free flow in and out...unless what Andy saw was some special sponge gizmo..that lets the flow through..

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  10. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai dc197's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craynerd View Post
    Andy - would try anything to improve it. What is the brand or any links?

    Feline - yes there is a timer but I've not used it and I've also added an external thermostat so I don't know if it'll work!! I'm going to try it when I get back from work!!

    What worries me is the fluctuating temperature! On a cold night, if I turn the ashp at say 11pm with the water at 14deg what will it drop two by 7:00am? Will the koi be ok??
    Unless you pond is the size of a pudding bowl, then yes, they'll be fine.

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  12. #9
    I recently turned my duratech for 48 hours and the pond covered dropped from 21c to 19c. So overnight I would not expect more than a 0.5 to 1 c change which as noted above should be fine. I’m going to start using my timer if I can work it out.
    Ian

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  14. #10
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I'm going to put mine on a timer soon (not because of noise but because the COP is lower overnight). Can't really do it yet because I don't have covers on yet. I am waiting for a custom order of SS balustrade posts for some jump guards to arrive first so I can order polycarbonate that will fit between them. I'm going to have the polycarbonate cut to the exact size by the supplier and the ends taped so it will be neater than what happens when you attack it with a jigsaw at home

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  16. #11
    Also running a Duratech on the timer, it only runs from 9am to 5pm, using it through the day when the air temperature is at its highest, covered with polycarbonate, only drops 1 to 1.5 degree overnight depending on how cold it is, see no point in flogging it through the night with the air temperature at its lowest only for it to be up to temperature in the day, as it is the ASHP only comes on for three or four hours during the day to maintain 18 degrees.

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  18. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai Rog.G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy1671 View Post
    I have seen an ASHP company at a show adding adhesive sponge pads to quieten it down. They installed them on the wire mesh that protects the fan blade.
    Maybe worth a try
    I have a noisy 10kw Dream that I don’t use for that reason. I would love to think adding adhesive sponge to the mesh would help but surely that would badly interfere with the performance of the unit.

  19. #13
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion Andre Asagi's Avatar
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    Just check that the blades of the fan aren't catching on anything when it spins. For example a build up of ice underneath the fan.

    Mine is below my bedroom window and if i open a window, move so i'm by the window and try to hear it, i can just about tell it's on.

    Mine isn't a fancy dan Dura either.

  20. #14
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion Andre Asagi's Avatar
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    Do you have a video of it running so we can hear how noisy it is and tell you if that's normal?

    I just made a 15 second clip of mine so you can compare.

    Ellie also in the video briefly.

    https://youtu.be/hbXvSA8w46Q

  21. #15
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Grand Champion Andre Asagi's Avatar
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    Sounds louder in the video than it actually is lol

  22. #16
    I’m not sure that running a heatpump on a timer will really save money. If you leave it on auto, the water will only drop 0.5 degrees before the heat kicks in, but on a timer, the water could drop over 1.5 degrees in one night.
    Someone correct my maths if I’m wrong, but it takes around 6 kwh to raise 10,000l by 0.5 degree, and 18 kwh to raise 1.5 degrees.

    The cop curve on my dura+ 10 is 4 at 0° and 5.5 at 10°, so on paper, at 0°C you get 6.8 kw (4 x 1.7 kw), and at 10°C you get 9.35 kw (5.5 x 1.7 kw).
    So on auto the heat pump would run for around one hour whereas on a timer it would run for nearly two. On auto it could run day or night, so the run time could be significantly less. In reality we probably don’t get even half these figures, even fully insulated.

    When we get a really cold spell and it barely gets above freezing all day, a heatpump could really struggle to raise the water by two degrees or more, and all the time it’s off you’re pumping water through it, chilling it more.
    I can understand running daytime only because of the noise, but other than that, put it on auto and let it do its thing, that’s what you paid all that money for.
    19,000 litres
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  24. #17
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Kyusai TinyTony's Avatar
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    elecro back up ?

  25. #18
    Moderator Rank = Supreme Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I see what you mean Balder.

    My thinking though is that if the pond insulation is good, and the heat pump only needs to be on once or twice a day to bring the pond back up to temp, it's better for your pocket if those times are during the warmer hours.

    I've been watching what my heat pump did over the last 48 hours and because it hasn't been that cold here and I've got the pond set to 14.0C the heat pump only came on once per day for an hour or so. Both times it came in at around 8am (since temps dropped very slowly overnight and didn't trigger the stat until then). If I put it on a timer I could delay that 8am heating period until a bit later on when ambient temps are in double figures. That is how I was thinking anyway! Accepted, if temp falls too much then the heat pump is going to have to on for longer getting it back up to temp. The question is which uses the most electricity? I might do some experiments with and without timer in similar weather conditions just for interest.

  26. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by craynerd View Post
    Andy - would try anything to improve it. What is the brand or any links?

    Feline - yes there is a timer but I've not used it and I've also added an external thermostat so I don't know if it'll work!! I'm going to try it when I get back from work!!

    What worries me is the fluctuating temperature! On a cold night, if I turn the ashp at say 11pm with the water at 14deg what will it drop two by 7:00am? Will the koi be ok??
    Most ASHP have built in also NIGHT mode - which you can select - either permanently - or in given time interval (22pm - 07am for example)- to reduce the noise - it reduces their heat output somewhat too - but should reduce noticeably the noise level as well.

    Several options you might want to try:
    1. Switching off for your sleep period is the very last option if nothing else would work for you - as indeed the temperature fluctuation is not desirable - plus you would not save much on electricity costs - as ASHP by definition of it's operating principle is extracting low density heat / energy from surrounding air so it must run continuously / most of the time to deliver heat needed.
    2. Try to see if you may be able to relocate your unit away from your (and your neighbors) bedrooms - basically if you cannot see it from your bedroom, you should not hear it (a bit more complex - as possible noise reflections could occur - but for simplicity use this assumption) - if you cannot relocate it - can you at least turn it around - to face off it's air exhaust away from your bedroom? Any angle away from direct sight from your bedroom will help - the worse noise level is in the direct path of it's air exhaust.
    3. You can build noise reduction shield (wooden fence, brick wall of sufficient height) in the direction towards your bedroom - if relocation is not an option - keeping in mind, that there should not be any obstruction min 30cm behind the unit and there should be good min. 1m of free space in front of it's air exhaust side (higher the better).
    4. 10kW ASHP for 1200 gal pond is on the high side - maybe you can sell your unit and buy smaller / cheaper / better built quality - with night operating mode and lower noise level - based on the general recommendations 5 - 6kW should be enough for your pond size - so you may end up not spending that much extra - just make sure to get the good unit - which will perform decently also at temperatures bellow 10 dC.
    5. ASHP is suitable in fact by it's operating principle to heat ponds in Spring and Fall - not that much in the winter - so ideally combination of ASHP (5-6kW for your pond size) plus heat exchanger powered by your main house heat source for the winter should be the most economical option - see great articles on this subject by Manky Sanke - whose guidance I followed myself too.

    Good luck and better sleep!

  27. #20
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    It may be worth getting the unit checked over by an air conditioning engineer.

    If I remember correctly Manny had a problem with excessive noise from his ASHP and on inspection an internal pipe had been relocated poorly.
    Bearings do wear out over time and it could just be that there is a quick, cheap and easy fix. Good luck with it.

 

 
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