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Thread: Koi Poo

  1. #1

    Koi Poo

    Hi
    I'm new to Koi keeping having recently installed my pond, all seems fine with everything levels etc. However I have changed over to wheatgerm feed in the last two weeks and have noticed some stringy whitish stuff on the bottom of my pond, Why suddenly have I got this? Should I be worried? I'm feeding my fish twice a day currently water temp is around 15.6 Celsius. Should I stop feeding? Not sure what to do and advice welcome!


    Many thanks



  2. #2
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai dc197's Avatar
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    Welcome.

    Koi poo is stringy and its colour matches that of their food. Ifeed pink food and get pink strings of pop in the pond.
    If what you're seeing a is indeed poo then there's nothing to worry about.
    But do ask yourself whether, and why, it's hanging around and not getting picked up by your filter.
    Do you have an in-pond submersible pump? Is it too high off the bottom to grab the poo?

    I keep my submersible pump off the bottom slightly to mitigate catastrophic leaks emptying the pond. The downside is I need to vacuum it.

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  4. #3
    What you are seeing is quite normal and nothing to worry about except if it is hanging around you need to find a way to get rid of it by adding a bottom drain, if you don't already have one.

    Also, if your pond is currently around 16 degrees I would continue feeding a more nutritious food, ie multi season, and if possible three times a day, which will help build up the fish for winter.

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  6. #4
    Moderator Rank = Grand Champion Feline's Avatar
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    You are more likely to see noticeable poo when you've just changed the food- it takes them a while to adapt. Sometimes you can get 'floaters' when you've just changed too. Can also be a sign of overfeeding if it's excessive in summer. It's to do with gut transit time and how fully digested the food is. Really well digested food is a lot less noticeable when it comes out the other end as less is left.

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  8. #5
    Thanks for your advice, No floating only on the bottom of pond. I assume it is ok to go back to High protein feed as temperatures are up, e.g is it ok to swap between wheatgerm and high protein?

  9. #6
    As the temps are getting lower at this time of year, I normally mix the food ie maybe 75% protein and 25% wheatgerm, then gradually change the ratio to more wheatgerm as the temp falls.

    Always check the manufacturers advice as to what temp to feed, but if you don't want the bother of mixing just buy some multi-season and feed that as the temps fall. JPD and Saki do very good multi-season.

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  11. #7
    i don't use wheatgerm, wild fish don't become vegetarian in winter, load of rubbish imo this wheatgerm malarky....spins some money though

    David

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  13. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Nanasai dc197's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by familyman View Post
    i don't use wheatgerm, wild fish don't become vegetarian in winter, load of rubbish imo this wheatgerm malarky....spins some money though

    David
    I hear you. But koi are pretty far removed from wild carp.

  14. #9
    Moderator Rank = Grand Champion Feline's Avatar
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    I agree with Familyman on this- I've never seen any convincing evidence for feeding wheatgerm. I either feed their normal food (high fishmeal %) or I feed nothing.

  15. #10
    I think there are two issues here, and its all a matter of whether you are heated or not as to what you wish to feed in winter. I have also never heard any convincing evidence that feeding wheatgerm is beneficial, but what I have seen is evidence that feeding too higher protein food in winter can be dangerous to fish.

    Now if you are heated through the winter you can obviously feed whatever you like, but if you are not then, feeding either high protein food or nothing seems not to be helping the fish at all, as most high protein food should only be fed above around 15 degrees, meaning if you don't feed any other type of food, and you are not heated then the fish are going to be unfed for around 4 - 5 months, which in my book is wrong for something that you nurture and cherish the rest of the year, and without doubt will not help the condition of the fish coming out of winter.

    In the wild, carp will feed all through the cold months, so why not feed the fish at least something if they will take it! after all I have never seen any evidence that starving fish is good for them, other than keepers that show fish doing it to hopefully get a better body shape by burning off excess fat. There is also no proof that 'giving the fish a winter' helps them in any way either. It may help some but it is not guaranteed for every fish, and it certainly is not a recognised science that's for sure!

    Fortunately, I am heated through the winter, and feed my fish throughout this time. They are always up for the food so I feed them twice or three times a day, and they seem to thrive on it, and the growth rate and condition is amazing with this type of regime.

    So not knocking others for feeding or not, but these are my thoughts on the subject.



    .

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  17. #11
    Moderator Rank = Grand Champion Feline's Avatar
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    Youre absolutely right that wild carp feed throughout the winter- they have evolved to do this. However what they feed on in the wild in winter is pretty much the same balance of other fish, algae and plants that they eat in the summer months, they are just less hungry and find less of it.

    They didnt evolve to eat grain crops like wheatgerm. Thats why I am unconvinced that wheatgerm food is somehow better/safer for them.

    There is a general belief that higher protein food will rot in their stomach in winter- and yet Ive not seen any convincing evidence that this is true. Fish dont even have a conventional stomach like a mammal anyway. That is why I personally prefer to feed them the same food throughout the year (although I generally dont buy the colour version in winter) and only alter the quantity and frequency.

    I am heated, but will drop down to 12C for a few weeks. During that time I will give them a period of starvation to slim down a few fish that need it, and possibly help a few females resorb eggs they didnt drop this summer. The reason for doing this is basically seeing first hand the quality of koi owned by some people who are doing that. I dont think Ive spoken to anyone who shows their fish who does not give their fish a mild 'winter'.

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  19. #12
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai RJW2012's Avatar
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    Koi Poo

    Great post Feline, especially the last paragraph. I say that as you touch on a number of points I wanted to add myself!

    Thanks,

    Rob.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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  21. #13
    I think we have to be a bit careful here about thinking "there's no evidence therefore it isn't correct"... there's very little scientific evidence for most of what we do as koi keepers - mainly because there are very few scientific tests carried out!
    I have not seen any evidence that wheatgerm is better in winter, but neither have I seen any evidence that high protein food is better in winter, or even in summer for that matter! I believe the recent GC from a major UK show is fed on wheatgerm all year round and several people do that, though I think that most people agree very young fish benefit from high protein.
    Personally I'm going to follow the crowd and feed wheatgerm in late autumn/early spring (I don't feed anything through winter - I'm unheated) because it seems to be the common opinion, and it's cheaper so there's no reason not to. It might not have any benefit, but I've not heard anyone say it's harmful, and I have heard many people (including the manufacturers on the food labels) say high protein food should only be fed in summer. I'm also going to stick with the high protein food in summer, because I think the majority think it's beneficial to growth and it seems logical.
    If anyone wants to sponsor an experiment I'll happily build another 2 identical ponds and test it... :-)

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  23. #14
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Hassai RJW2012's Avatar
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    The crux of this for me is heated/unheated, I.e you have to behave differently dependent on that.

    Not feeding in winter because your unheated I think is the safe bet, there is a but - if conditions are inclement and your fish are up and looking for food, many koi keepers will and do feed small controlled amounts without any adverse effects, usually Wheatgerm as you say.

    Being heated and feeding in winter obviously takes away this concern and how you ‘overwinter’ is really personal choice - yes there are thoughts about ‘conditioning’ to bear in mind (Feline’s last paragraph).

    For me being heated just makes sense for this and other ‘healthcare’ aspects, e.g. aeromonas alley:

    Aeromonas alley

    Thanks Syd.

    Rob.


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