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  1. #41
    Hi DC, thanks for that link, that was very interesting reading for the most part. Dr Tim certainly seems plausible, or is that because he's saying what I want to hear. Lol.

    So basically the bacteria will cope fine with a double dose and if no dose, they will just hibernate.

    For me, I think double dose as I want them to cary on multiplying and get onto the next stage of the process.

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  3. #42
    Morning guys.

    The little critters have demolished the ammonia again, and also dropped the KH down to 4 again.

    So I've double dosed their food, both the Ammonia and bicarb.

    The Nitrite has also dropped, it looks like it's nearly 2.

    Not started testing for Nitrate yet.

    PH is still 8.

    Its so strange feeding and looking after bacteria like pets. I hope none of the neighbours ask what I'm doing or I'll look crazier than they already think I an (there may have been an incident with hoovering a carpet on our lawn, and also a chainsaw incident 3 meters up a tree)

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  5. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Megson View Post
    Hi DC, thanks for that link, that was very interesting reading for the most part. Dr Tim certainly seems plausible, or is that because he's saying what I want to hear. Lol.

    So basically the bacteria will cope fine with a double dose and if no dose, they will just hibernate.

    For me, I think double dose as I want them to cary on multiplying and get onto the next stage of the process.
    Jason,

    I agree that Dr. Tim is describing the situation very well. One point I can expand on is that bugs don't just slip into and out of a state which we could describe as hibernation.

    We know that koi in warm water will eat as much as they are able but, if we go away for a while and they aren't fed, although they will look for food and will scrape algae off the sides of the pond, they aren't particularly troubled if they aren't being fed their normal ration.

    Koi are very hard to starve to death and can go literally for months without food and then begin eating again when food becomes available. Bugs are even harder to starve do death.

    Bugs don't "eat" as such but they take up nutrients and grow until they can divide. If they are deprived of their nutrient source for a while they will simply stop growing and dividing. How long a bug will wait isn't something we can make a rule of thumb about because it will vary greatly with different species and different conditions.

    Eventually, if nutrients aren't forthcoming, they will go into a state that is similar to suspended animation. Achieving this state requires an expenditure of energy in order to shut down normal metabolic processes but in a way that they can be restarted again when conditions improve. There is a lag time while this phase takes place and they need to use precious energy to go into this state and out of it so they don't slip into this state and out of it whenever their nutrient source dries up for a few days.

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  7. #44
    Syd, what is suspended animation and how does it differ from hibernation?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  8. #45
    Hi Manky,

    Cheers for that, that's a great explanation.

    So when our ponds come our of winter, we don't need to grow more bacteria, just bring them out of suspension?

    From what you've said, over winter while the food source is low, they are all still active, just not multiplying, but they wouldn't go into suspended animation if there is a small food source would they?

    This is so interesting, I'm really enjoying this.

  9. #46
    I would describe hibernation as a condition of deep sleep with a reduced metabolism that saves energy and is usually associated with animals who find it a convenient way to spend the winter when food isn't available. Animals that hibernate need to build up bodily resources, such as body mass, before they do so in order to power their metabolism during hibernation. Although the metabolism is reduced, the brain stays active and they sometimes wake up for a short time during this period.

    I would describe bacterial suspended animation as an almost complete cessation of metabolism due to an unfavourable environment but in a way that it's possible for it to restart the processes that have shut down when environmental conditions improve. There isn't a standard approach to this some bugs just wait using minimal resources and these can die if these resources run out before conditions allow the bug to "wake up". Some bugs go into a more extreme suspended animation by forming endospores which are like a bug "seed" where no resources are being consumed. They can last like this for tens, hundreds or even thousands of years then revert to a normally functioning bug just as a seed would germinate and grow into a copy the plant it originally came from.

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  11. #47
    My mind is blown.

    No matter what I feed these little critters they devour it in 24h.

    Yesterday I gave a double dose of ammonia, which would have been 10ppm, and it's back at 0ppm this morning.

    My Nitrite is also a point down at 2 instead of 3.

    I've yester for Nitrate for the 1st time today and that is off the scale at over 100.

    Kh is 5', but considering that also got a double dose of bicarb I'm shocked.

    And PH is very slightly lower than normal at 7.5 instead of 8.

    So, I'm going to double dose everything again and do a water change for the Nitrate. Does anyone know how much water the Nexus 320 holds in the centre? I know it's 800 ish total, but assume the larger amount is in the outer.

    Jay

  12. #48
    Senior Member Rank = Hassai dc197's Avatar
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    Hurrah for nitrate.

  13. #49
    Hurrah indeed, now just need all the levels to drop, although at the current rate of pond build there definitely is no rush. Lol.

  14. #50
    Good news.

    I've been double dosing the ammonia, so I've been putting 12ppm in ever 24h, and if you've been following this thread you'll know I've had 0 Ammonia since 26-7, which was 7 days after addition of bacteria.

    I also had my Nitrite at 3ppm on the same date. These 2 levels may have come quicker, but I hadn't tested before the 27th.

    I then tested 2 days later for Nitrate and found I had a level of that at over 100 ppm, off the scale.

    Well this morning my Ammonia is still 0, Nitrite is 2, and Nitrate is 20.

    I've stabilised both ph at 8 and KH at 6'.

    All good.

  15. #51
    Can anyone point me in the direct of a source of suitable ammonia for this fishless cycling?

    Thanks Rich

  16. #52
    If you read my article, it explains how to do it and that the ammonia can be bought in any supermarket.
    Fishless cycling

  17. #53

 

 
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