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Thread: Doitsu Showa

  1. #1

    Doitsu Showa

    Hello to all, I am in Australia and unfortunately we are not allowed to import Koi. I have decided that the Doitsu Showa is magnificent and am embarking on a long term plan of breeding these. Those few Doitsu Showa that are around are being kept by their owners and I don't blame them. So my quest is to start from Doitsu Shiro Utsuri and a Showa. Now that in itself is a problem because there is a lack of Doitsu Shiro Utsuri and again anyone who has some are keeping them, so I may even have to go to a Kumonryu. Now I have many questions which I will post over time but as breeding season is only a couple of months away I will start with the primary ones.

    1) which is best to be Doitsu, the male or the female.
    2) Has anyone tried a cross between a Kumonryu and a Showa, if so what was the result. Probably Beni Kumonry!

    I hope someone can assist me stuck out here in the colonies.

    Kind regards.



  2. #2
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Hiya and welcome.

    You Guys have it hard and have my sincere respect for what you achieve, its hard for us over here to fully appreciate the challenges you face and have to overcome.

    Doitsu Showa; Is deep end stuff - been there tried it and even with quality Japanese bloodstock it was school of hard knocks.

    1) lot slower growing; parent stock smaller less eggs less fry
    2) more inherrent deformities
    3) selection in the culling process difficult.

    From DS pair I got a decent number of Doitsu Shiro Utsuri so if you cant get hold of a DS then from a Doitsu Shiro you should have a decent chance of some DS.

    Dont see it matters as to boy/girl variety if going for a mix spawn, by the book you would only retain black fry at early cull for Showa.

    Whatever happens keep in touch

    Dave

  3. #3
    I wish you loads of luck which ever happens.

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  4. #4
    Oh and my breeding this last year was a kumonryu male and a Shiro Utsuri female.

    For the most part, I ended up with matsuawabake (sp) and they're developing still at over 14 mths, I had no idea what to keep or cull, so tried to keep a few of each.

    Black koi turned to beautiful whale looking fish and the white started to get sumi development. Totally different to what you would ever think of.

    If you have the space and think you can sell even some of the 'odd ball' fish. Then keep them. You never know, unless you get to talk to some experts.

    I was told to cull all black and then by others to cull all white. Glad I just kept a selection of each, or I would never have seen how they develop.

    Some crackers in there.

    One thing I would watch out more for is mouth deformities. Got rid of all the ones with bad body shape, but the mouths are harder to see, especially on black fish. Worth really taking your time and looking that bit harder.

    here anytime.... even with my limited knowledge.
    Blog, Koi, Everything.

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  5. #5
    Hey thanks for yer input, I hope I live long enough to see what happens, but hey in fer a penny as they say. Ex pomme from NW London, been here 38years just fer steeling a shirbat stick hahaha. With your Kumonryu/shiro how many (%) would be doitsu? and how many do you think will end up as Doitsu Shiro Utsuri? Crystal balls available on e-bay if required.

  6. #6
    I am sure you will

    As for doitsu, none. At least none that I could see in the whole batch. But we only raised around 5000 probably went down to 3000 through natural selection.

    If I had a bigger space, maybe I'd be able to see more, but nope. Just black or white fish. Which then later started to change.

    No, real Shiro Utsuri either, least not that I could see. And I tried to research a fair bit.

    There are some good videos about, just not as detailed as I'd like for the home breeder.

    Most of it was just left to chance, and by chance, I think I've got a couple of really nice ones.

    Next time, not sure which pair I'd try....

    Think she's had a year off this time around. So next year, I might give it another go.

    Keep us up to date, love learning about this process.
    Blog, Koi, Everything.

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  7. #7
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Hiya

    What have you currently got stock wise that you could use for breeding?

    And what particularly floats your boat about Doitsu? They are pretty fish but even over here you rarely see a decent one.

    Looking at the bigger, longer term picture I'd be thinking of running a set of single coloured Koi; Yam or Chag alongside any "special" set, my reasoning being that at some stage in the future you may want to put size into any set so I'd be culling the fry from this set with a bias on size.

    Any logic in this?

    Dave

  8. #8
    Hey Dave, well I have a fairly mixed breed at the moment, from Kohaku, Showa, Goshiki, Doitsu Matsuba, Sushui, Gin Rin Yamabuki, Ki Ogon, and a couple of oddballs from a practice spawn 2 years ago. The Sushui is red or Aka all over with only dorsal scales. I was thinking of trying this with a Showa to see the outcome, what do you think.

 

 

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