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  1. #41
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Koi View Post
    What happens to those that don't make the grade in selection?
    The brutal reality is that they go into one of the ponds and get eaten. A few get lucky,- as they do in nature

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  3. #42
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    The brutal reality is that they go into one of the ponds and get eaten. A few get lucky,- as they do in nature
    Yeah I get that, you're not gonna be able to keep every fish, out of all the dark ones you keep it must be hard to see how they're gonna turn out colour size wise, must be a nightmare to select what to keep as they get bigger and older, I wouldn't know where to start in looking to be honest, I've seen what to me looks a like a nice fish, but I wouldn't have a clue on predicting what it'll turn out to be, only recently read on how to distinguish a female from a male and that's vaguely, female's generally fatter/heavier bodied from what I've read,

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  5. #43
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Ok an update of where we currently are with the fry. I will see if I can get some pics to illustrate.

    Set up wise

    There are two 1000 gallons (T2 and T3) inside and the 2200 gallon wildlife pond outside.

    Inside tanks are drum filtered, T2 is shower on the Bio,T3 is shower and a barrel of K1. Believe me drum filters are from ideal when raising fry.

    WLP is BD pump fed to a Nexus 200 with a separate pump through an ASHP.

    Running everything at 24C


    I kept the fry in cage nets whilst doing the Kuroko until I was confident they wouldn’t escape through 1.5mm mesh net.

    In the inside tanks I protect the BDs with 1.5mm mesh nets,not pretty but very effective and with a large surface area they don’t get clogged too quickly.

    In the WLP I disconnected the BD feed to the N, moved the pump for the ASHP and protected it with a floating cage and then connected up the return from the ASHP to the input of the N. Not pretty but cheap quick and effective.

    I like to spread risk and experiment, so 10000 black fry went into T2 and 5000 in to T3. 12000ish went into the WLP and a further 3000 went into a 1.5mm mesh net in the WLP.

    I had got the WLP lovely and green, maybe too green? I thought -- so clicked on the UV for 24 hours– sadly this proved rather too effective and it took a load more colour and algae from the water than was ideal. Lesson learned.

    Feed wise, started with a mix of freshly hatch artemia, (1teaspoon of cysts in 2L of 25ppt salt), at 28C they hatch out nicely in 20hours.. Each set up got one container 6times a day, supplemented by 200micron powder from ZM feeds .. Pricey stuff but 60% protein specialist feed. The salt water in the 2L hatching container is drained through a 70micron strainer and then put in a jug to stand for a few minutes. The shells from the artemia float on top and can be skimmed off.

    I shifted the wlp fish over to powder only about a week ago and started to increase the feed size to include some ZM300 (0.3-0.5mmparticles). They took to this well. Seeing the little ripples on the surface asthey take the particles is real cool, the evening feeding session is very special.

    At the moment I am weaning the inside tanks ontopowder. They love the artemia but they canget too preoccupied with it, far better they have particles of better size. And at £100 or so for 450gm it’s not cheap..

    A few escaped the spawning cage in T2, these need to be selected out as they are significantly bigger than the rest and will start to snack on their siblings. There is also aTobie in T3 that is doing a fair amount of munching and 4 or 5 in the WLP.
    Last edited by Davej; 18-06-2019 at 05:56 PM.

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  7. #44
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Wildlife pond set up IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190618/1763ba8b4c0f0b4575923d5de3d9ae82.jpg[/IMG]
    Bd covers on inside tanks
    Inside tanks
    Artemia sieve



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Davej; 18-06-2019 at 06:06 PM.

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  9. #45
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Wildlife pond set up

    My feeble attempts at daphnia production, thereís a longer story to this.


    What drives me on





    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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  11. #46
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Rokusai AlanF's Avatar
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    Always good to see an update from your "fish farm" Dave, still have memories of a very pleasant visit a couple of years back. Good luck with this years hatch and I hope to maybe buy a couple of your rejects to improve the quality of my current batch of mutts.


    PS. Window growing on you yet?

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  13. #47
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Humm window, I need more Plecos. They only seem to work night shifts on the glass.

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  15. #48
    Great update, bet some effort goes in to keeping the filters clean. They crap glue!

    Is the big grown on pond complete? Seen your glassers video I assume your keepers are going in there?
    Built not bought!

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  17. #49
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave_vr6 View Post
    Great update, bet some effort goes in to keeping the filters clean. They crap glue!

    Is the big grown on pond complete? Seen your glassers video I assume your keepers are going in there?

    Yes it is running nicely, need to clear out a fair amount of the stock in there just to leave open the options for numbers of the 2019 crew to over winter..

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  19. #50
    Excellent! Soon be time to build a few more grow on tanks
    Thanks for sharing your progress so far very interesting. Would you look for black fry with developing beni when selecting Sanke or does this only apply to showa?

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  21. #51
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai bowsaw's Avatar
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    if you make a shelf out of acrylic or something suitably light porous you can have a row of containers above and below the same SAD lamp, raise the algae first and then dose with a batch of daphnia, easier than trying to raise the food and the grazer at same time,
    the slow pond build thread

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  23. #52
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowsaw View Post
    if you make a shelf out of acrylic or something suitably light porous you can have a row of containers above and below the same SAD lamp, raise the algae first and then dose with a batch of daphnia, easier than trying to raise the food and the grazer at same time,
    Thanks, its been frustrating, I can have 10 buckets treat them all the same in terms of feed (yeast and algae) and half will do well and the other 5 pretty poor. Scaled up in 100 gallon tanks they survive and I can get some increase in population but never the same explosion that I get in those small containers that thrive.

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  25. #53
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithatrax View Post
    Excellent! Soon be time to build a few more grow on tanks
    Thanks for sharing your progress so far very interesting. Would you look for black fry with developing beni when selecting Sanke or does this only apply to showa?
    Sanke is traditionally from yellow fry. With your spawn yellow is what I would be looking for, Kohaku and Sanke being the target.

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  27. #54
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai bowsaw's Avatar
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    whets the yeast for? I only ever raised them via just phytoplankton, they can be susceptible to population crashes, that's where the self preservation part of the sexual/asexual life cycle kicks in, but to get the live young your after you need plentiful supply of food, or they switch strategies, lots of smaller containers in the same space would work better.
    the slow pond build thread

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  29. #55
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai Tom Koi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Wildlife pond set up

    My feeble attempts at daphnia production, there’s a longer story to this.


    What drives me on





    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Amazing work, fairplay you deserve great success for your efforts and knowledge great thread superb stuff.

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  31. #56
    Senior Member Rank = Adult Champion RS2OOO's Avatar
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    The level of commitment is incredible and I sincerely hope you gain some incredible Koi from it.



    As for Daphnia, my way was far less refined with no science to it at all, but it worked.

    Filled 3 plastic dustbins with water and left them till the water went green. I bought one bag of Daphnia from the local pet shop and split it between the 3 bins. Every few days I'd throw a banana skin or orange peel into any one of the bins and that was that. No air stone, nothing fancy at all.

    Throughout the summer the supply of Daphnia was adequate enough to feed my Fry as well as a weekly treat for the adults.

    When it was time to clean a bin out I'd simply pour it away (leaving the algae on the sides), prime it with water and daphnia from the other 2 and carry on.

    To say it was easy would be an understatement.

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  33. #57
    Nice one dave. Awesome.
    Knowledge is of the scale.
    Respect mate.
    And i hope with all your efforts you get that one fish your after.
    A great thread. And massive learning of it.
    Fred

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

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  35. #58
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Supreme Champion Davej's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowsaw View Post
    whets the yeast for? I only ever raised them via just phytoplankton, they can be susceptible to population crashes, that's where the self preservation part of the sexual/asexual life cycle kicks in, but to get the live young your after you need plentiful supply of food, or they switch strategies, lots of smaller containers in the same space would work better.

    Hi , activated yeast seems to be rEcommended as a food source by many, ?

  36. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Wildlife pond set up

    My feeble attempts at daphnia production, there’s a longer story to this.


    What drives me on





    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    This is just only small step away from full scale aquaculture

    Very impressive and very thorough efforts Dave - very interested following up on your results - please keep this thread alive as a documentary of what you can achieve with your focused approach. Thank you for sharing with us.

    Milaz
    You get what you pay for - or better - what you make yourself.

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  38. #60
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Jussai bowsaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davej View Post
    Hi , activated yeast seems to be rEcommended as a food source by many, ?
    strange one, literally all you need to do is raise a nice high turbidity culture of phytoplankton and then add a seed batch of daphnia to it,

    you could use biological matter of plant feed for that, tiger prawns are raised in ponds doused with pig or chicken muck to feed the algae, that in turn feeds the prawns.

    but for small scale culture the water should have enough nutrients to raise a decent bloom, or just take water from the pond and use that to grown the plankton
    the slow pond build thread

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